|
MidgetWithGuns
|
05-16-2005, 08:54 PM
Post subject: Limping with AA in early position
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7
|
|
Thats right, I often limp with AA in early position unless I know that theres lots of fish.
I play 50 NL (0.5/1) at Pacific Poker
I switch between two strategies when playing AA in early position. Most of the time I bet 10x BB pre-flop IF I feel theres been a lot of players calling bigger preflop bets with mediocre hands. But sometimes when I dont have a feel for the table I choose to simply call in hope for a bet, call and maybe even a raise. I got a feeling this is just wrong but its been wicked profitable lately. What do you think about this?
Heres my current limping style weird play:
I choose to simply call with AA. Three players folds, then a players bets 4xBB, next players calls and then the next player raise 8x BB,
the rest folds up to me. I re-raise it to 20xBB.
The betting and calling player folds, the one who raised calls.
Flop comes all rags, I just check since I got the feeling hes holding high cards and if he catches something on the turn OR bet to try to steal the pot its just good for me.
He checks also
turn comes 7 no pair on the board or dangerous straight draw though opening a backdoor flush oppurtunity so I decide to bet 30x BB, he calls, another hearts comes on the river but I bet all-in anyway, he calls and I win a pot of a 100 dollars.
Necessary sometimes or just dumb?
Would appreciate any views on this
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
SmackinYaUp
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
|
|
Limping AA in early position can be a good play, and it sounds like you know when the right times to do this are. Definitely not good at a loose passive table, but when you are hoping for a raise, it can really get people tied to their hands. Its always good to keep your plays varied.
If that backdoor flush scare card does fall (or any other scare cared), its sometimes better to just check the river since a big bet will usually be folded to unless they have the flush (sometimes other big pocket pairs will call as well). Anyways, if he doesnt have anything decent he will just fold. If you check, you might get a bluff from weaker hands. If he checks behind, well, he probably would have folded anyways. Smaller, call-able river bets also work sometimes.
Just be prepared for more suckouts when flop checking AA like this, and be able to fold when beat.
|
|
|
|
mgobluefb
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 172
|
|
Every once in a while I will limp with AA and hope someone raises preflop. However, occaisionally, no one does. I have folded AA a couple times postflop when this happens. You can use this play all you want, but you need to be able to both read your opponent and lay it down if necessary.
|
|
|
|
dsaxton
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
|
|
I usually raise with A-A regardless of position, though sometimes I will limp-raise. If you always limp-raise with aces from first position, however, you're advertising that you don't have aces when you do raise, which could present problems if a player happens to be observant enough to pick up on this.
|
|
|
|
SmackinYaUp
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
|
|
And you'd be advertising AA every time you do limp reraise.
|
|
|
|
MidgetWithGuns
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 7
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
And you'd be advertising AA every time you do limp reraise.
|
Yes I felt like that...thats why I was worrying if its really the right thing to do at all. But Ive been thinking a little and I feel that there are so many bad players that get provoked by a re-raise preflop and end up raising more or calling out of pure frustration.
Though if we are talking about good players which can actually be seen at Pacific Poker from time to time  I guess the only thing is to bet no matter what position.
Thanks for the replies! if you have something really REALLY bad to say about this type of game then please do, thats why Im posting.
|
|
|
|
The_Cheat
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
And you'd be advertising AA every time you do limp reraise.
|
sometimes i limpraise just to be a punk.
great re-steal technique... if the guy doesnt push =(
|
Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
|
|
|
ChezJ
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
|
|
from theory of poker, pg 68: You've made a small raise, four of five people have called, and now someone puts in a substantial reraise. You must reraise again even if your play gives away your hand completely. It is worth dropping all disguise because as the pot gets larger and larger, what's in the pot right now counts more than potential bets on later rounds. With two aces you should put in all the bets you can.
|
|
|
|
SmackinYaUp
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChezJ
from theory of poker, pg 68: You've made a small raise, four of five people have called, and now someone puts in a substantial reraise. You must reraise again even if your play gives away your hand completely. It is worth dropping all disguise because as the pot gets larger and larger, what's in the pot right now counts more than potential bets on later rounds. With two aces you should put in all the bets you can.
|
So make that reraise count. No pussy bets.
|
|
|
|
UG
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChezJ
from theory of poker, pg 68: You've made a small raise, four of five people have called, and now someone puts in a substantial reraise. You must reraise again even if your play gives away your hand completely. It is worth dropping all disguise because as the pot gets larger and larger, what's in the pot right now counts more than potential bets on later rounds. With two aces you should put in all the bets you can.
|
So make that reraise count. No pussy bets. |
So, I'm playing NL25. I actually min-raised AA from UTG. One caller, raise to $1, raise to $4, one caller. So now there's about $9.50 in the pot and it's on me. Do I jam all of my chips in there or put it up to $12 or so? I don't want both people calling me and I don't want to be AI against 2-3 hands (unless they're calling me), so do I just jam my chips in the middle to take it down and/or get AI preflop with one or two others?
I ended up pushing and nobody called. I won $9.50. Smart?
|
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
And you'd be advertising AA every time you do limp reraise.
|
...and they will still call/re-raise.
For what it's worth, I do this all the time with AA/KK. When I re-raise I try to get in over 33% of the money so I can push on any flop. Fail that, I have no problems playing AA/KK in a small pot. It gives me some deception (particularly if I hit a set) and makes it easy to let go of my hand.
|
|
|
|
Rondavu
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ultimate George
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by SmackinYaUp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ChezJ
from theory of poker, pg 68: You've made a small raise, four of five people have called, and now someone puts in a substantial reraise. You must reraise again even if your play gives away your hand completely. It is worth dropping all disguise because as the pot gets larger and larger, what's in the pot right now counts more than potential bets on later rounds. With two aces you should put in all the bets you can.
|
So make that reraise count. No pussy bets. |
So, I'm playing NL25. I actually min-raised AA from UTG. One caller, raise to $1, raise to $4, one caller. So now there's about $9.50 in the pot and it's on me. Do I jam all of my chips in there or put it up to $12 or so? I don't want both people calling me and I don't want to be AI against 2-3 hands (unless they're calling me), so do I just jam my chips in the middle to take it down and/or get AI preflop with one or two others?
I ended up pushing and nobody called. I won $9.50. Smart? |
I think so. You won $9.50
|
|
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
|
|
ZenOffsuit
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Reading, ma
Posts: 293
|
|
I have a tough time limping early w/ aces unless I believe there will be a player or two that will be likely to raise. I am more comfortable limping with A/K on occasion.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sprayed
When are you going to write the ultimate johnny_fish strategy manual? I'm tired of seeing your wins and then cleaning my shorts.
|
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ZenOffsuit
I have a tough time limping early w/ aces unless I believe there will be a player or two that will be likely to raise. I am more comfortable limping with A/K on occasion.
|
This sounds backwards to me.
|
|
|
|
ChezJ
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Washington, D.C.
Posts: 1,456
|
|
$9.50 is over 1/3 of a buy-in. that's a huge win. be happy.
|
|
|
|
ZenOffsuit
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Reading, ma
Posts: 293
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ZenOffsuit
I have a tough time limping early w/ aces unless I believe there will be a player or two that will be likely to raise. I am more comfortable limping with A/K on occasion.
|
This sounds backwards to me. |
I guess I should add that this limping w/ A/K would be in early rounds of a tournament....I am not a ring player. Does that still make the logic backwards? For me, it is easier to laydown A/K after a limp if I don't get a good flop....I guess I am too scared to see my Aces get cracked in a multi-way pot so I rather raise with them. Hmmm.....kind of gutless
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sprayed
When are you going to write the ultimate johnny_fish strategy manual? I'm tired of seeing your wins and then cleaning my shorts.
|
|
|
SmackinYaUp
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: B N L
Posts: 1,725
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ZenOffsuit
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ZenOffsuit
I have a tough time limping early w/ aces unless I believe there will be a player or two that will be likely to raise. I am more comfortable limping with A/K on occasion.
|
This sounds backwards to me. |
For me, it is easier to laydown A/K after a limp if I don't get a good flop.... |
I dont know anything about tournaments but I do know that its even easier to just raise preflop and pretend your AK hits 2 pair and take the pot home where it belongs.
I used to limp a lot of hands as well but AK is a pretty good hand and limping it will not increase the chances of it connecting with the flop. Even if you do hit a pair on the flop after limping you are still going to have to make decisions. Since you didnt raise preflop there are now possibly more people in the pot against your lonely pair, you havent advertised any strength so its hard telling what they think you have.
example: the guy with AQ thinks his A is better than yours since you limped and he raises you. You, on the other hand, have no idea what in the hell he is raising with since you have not shown any preflop strength. You fold, he shows and you get pissed. Next day, someone raises your ace, you push, and he shows 2pair for the win.
If you raise with AK and get reraised hard then your decisions become much simpler, preflop and postflop. Also, raising with it makes buying the pot easier + more profitable.
Is this too obvious? Im ranting too much lately. Anyways, thats my $0.27
|
|
|
|
ZenOffsuit
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Reading, ma
Posts: 293
|
|
You make good points and I agree 100%. I think the only times I consider limping is to misrepresent my hands nowand then. Hopefully get a good flop to draw some more chips my way or be able to get out of the way w/out losing much. It is always a tough call where and when do do this. Then you need to make sure you ALWAYS have the brains to let go of your limped Aces or A/K if you are beat.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Sprayed
When are you going to write the ultimate johnny_fish strategy manual? I'm tired of seeing your wins and then cleaning my shorts.
|
|
|
Bmxicle
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 947
|
|
The only problem with limp raising, is when i see a limp raise from a tight player, i can't fold fast enough unless i have odds to hit a set. It really gives away your hand and when a tight player does this they might as well be saying "i have AA, or maybe KK". So at a table full of aggressive fish that raise alot this is a great move, but against aware players you are giving away your hand when a raise would have accomplished almost the same thing.
|
|
|
|
The_Cheat
|
|
Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Takin yo' scratch
Posts: 173
|
|
this is the perfect oppurtunity for collusion. you limp your aces, and a few other guys do too, your partner raises you a couple callers, you reraise a couple more callers, he rereraises, a caller, you push. everyone folds!
money in the bank
|
Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Cheat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
The english prefer tea and crumpets. Americans prefer to kick your ass.
-'rilla
|
|
|
NomaD
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 16
|
|
Min raise, watch GusHanson1985 put half his stack in trying to blow you off the pot and tank him...
NomaD
No Fixed Address-----
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
