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pokerroomace
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01-02-2007, 04:02 PM
Post subject: limp or raise when 1st to open?
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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i've heard players say that whenever they are 1st to open they will only play the hand if they are willing to raise with it. and then followed on by saying if they are willing to raise with it - they will raise with it.
i think i phil gordon said this piece of advice in his little green book. but i've also heard others say it.
would you say this is good advice? or are there times where you will just limp a hand rather than raising it?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Playing 6max I don't know if there's ever any real excuse to open limp unless you're playing a host of clueless maniacs who you know will be raising come what may. Full ring is trickier; PPs, which are about the only hands I would consider open limping, are less likely to hold up after the flop, so limp/calling for set value has its place, certainly at low stakes.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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at very loose tables open limping speculative hands like 33 has its place. On reasonably tight tables raising is often best since it gives you 2 ways to win and builds a pot for when you hit.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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The Izebox
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: bronx new york
Posts: 255
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6 max I would never open limp, if you cant raise with it then dont play it...with small pocker pairs you want to be building a big pot in case you do hit your set, and with big pocket pairs or high cards you dont want to see a flop 3-4 handed.
Also, if you are limping preflop then i am assuming that you will be calling a raise...if you do miss your flop it will be much harder to take down the pot, as a lead in bet will often be reraised no matter what by a good player.
I almost always open raise as opposed to open limp.
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Me? I always tell the truth.
Even when I lie.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by izybx
with small pocker pairs you want to be building a big pot in case you do hit your set
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This is awful advice without qualifying what you mean. If you are playing opponents who will stack off (or close) with good TP hands or 2 pair hands in unraised pots then why on earth would you want to build a pot that
a) You are likely to miss the flop with
b) You are not likely to be able to push them off their top pair type hands.
Quote:
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if you are limping preflop then i am assuming that you will be calling a raise
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Only if there is one.
As I said above, it is usually better to raise at tighter tables, but I think raising 22 UTG in a loose passive game is probably a leak. Raising these speculative hands is really just a sophisticated semi-bluff. Trying to bluff calling stations is an up hill battle.
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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One of the most depressing things in poker is limp/folding pre-flop. If I do ever want to limp in EP or MP (in LP I'm never open-limping), I check the PF aggression of my table and it has to be low for me to try it. Even then, it *feels* like a mistake.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
b) You are not likely to be able to push them off their top pair type hands.
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This is almost never part of my game-plan.
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kerrytilt
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 11
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I am all about keeping others off balanced in knowing your trends. So maybe Raise, Raise, Raise to establish a trend, then move to limping. Again going from loose to tight to loose. If your opponents see that every time you are Raising with a strong pair, they will fold if they have crap or borderline hands. Then you shift to limping in, you can more easily trap. If you start trying to trap, they will see you as trying to set them up. Then you move to raising and they will see you as a bluffer and come at you strong. Poker is about playing your opponents more then playing the cards.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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^^ not a bad post, but OP is playing 25NL. Large changes in playing style are not necessary.
Open raise everything you play because they will make bigger post-flop mistakes than you. If that's not true you need to figure out what you're doing wrong post-flop to get better.
The only time I open limp is where there is a maniac still to act who raises every time. Then I limp/call a lot to keep the pot under control.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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pokerroomace
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Full House
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 783
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kerrytilt
I am all about keeping others off balanced in knowing your trends. So maybe Raise, Raise, Raise to establish a trend, then move to limping. Again going from loose to tight to loose. If your opponents see that every time you are Raising with a strong pair, they will fold if they have crap or borderline hands. Then you shift to limping in, you can more easily trap. If you start trying to trap, they will see you as trying to set them up. Then you move to raising and they will see you as a bluffer and come at you strong. Poker is about playing your opponents more then playing the cards.
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maybe at the higher stakes this is good advice at higher stakes but at $25NL (at pokerroom) i think this is very poor advice. i doubt many players are watching what you are doing or your stats. even if you play 100 hands with the same players they still won't know much about you.
btw, i'm talking about FR. at 6 max there is more "watching other players" going on.
but i don't think it is ever a good idea to limp AA, KK, AK, etc.
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