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Limit vs. No-Limit: An example

  
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 02-17-2005, 04:10 AM     Post subject: Limit vs. No-Limit: An example #1 (permalink)  
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So last night a hand came up where UTG raises min, 2nd player bets pot, LP player cold calls both raises.
Flop comes Kh Qh Ac

Now say you're player 2. You hold AsQs. I don't mind the pot sized bet before the flop, but you have to give some respect to a raise from early position. I would probably call and see how the action plays out.

Now you have flopped 2 pair. How do you play?

On the flop UTG bets pot. What is the correct play? FOLD.
You have 2 players that stood a pot sized raise pre-flop (which I admit happens a lot more than it should, especially at low buy-in games)
But anyway, you have to give them credit for some type of hand.
What hand could they have that you have beat? You maybe came up with KQ, or a bluff. First of all- that is the wrong question to ask yourself- the right question is "what would I have that I could raise from early position and then bet into the reraiser and a player who called a reraise?" You are probably up against a big pocket pair(who flopeed a set), which is what you were representing with your pre flop raise.

So, Maybe he's trying to buy the pot, but then what about the player who cold called a re raise? what could he have? Pocket 10s maybe? The treuth is chances are, one of these players has you beat. don't gamble, Throw away 2 pair and wait for the next hand. This one will cost way too much if you're wrong.

What did player 2 do? Exactly what most players on this site would say to do. He raised. I suppose maybe to "see where he was at." or to "be the aggressor" Being the agressor is useless when you are probably not only beat, but beat badly.

Player 3 raised all-in, then quickly UTG called all-in.
Now I have been blasted for giving this advice a few times, but I never call off all my chips unless I am sure I have the best hand.
"A bettor or a raiser be, but a caller, never" -T.J. Cloutier

So now its to player 2 to act... and he's thinking... then finally:
call!?

Now I, watching the hand, knew that Player 2 was beat. Why didn't he?
Because beginners fall in love too easily. They are impatient.
Cool down, there will be other hands.

It winds up UTG had J/10 suited and flopped the nuts
Player 3 cold called pre-flop with KK and made his set.
The J/10 held up, and tripled up, KK won the side pot, and Player 2 got to lick his wounds and start all over from scratch.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 02-17-2005, 04:27 AM #2 (permalink)  
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what does this have to do with limit vs no limit?
 
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Demiparadigm
Old 02-17-2005, 04:36 AM #3 (permalink)  
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So, now the difference between Limit and NL: You can go broke on one hand in NL. Don't make stupid calls, don't make stupid raises. (Even when you see other players doing it, and winning.)

Now in Limit AQ is a power hand, in NL it can be a trap.
In limit, the correct play would be to raise on the flop. In NL FOLD, please. Your bankroll will last longer and grow faster, I promise.

In NL, in general, hands like aj,kq, kj, k10, qj, q10, are trash. They can't stand a raise, Throw them away.
These "big cards" are the majority of what you play in Limit.
In NL you can double up with suited connectors. In limit you will not be a winner to suited connectors over the long run, I promise.
In NL you can protect your hand, In limit you usually have odds to chase almost any draw. In NL, I don't chase unless I have 2 overcards and a draw to the nuts. (old school style)

That is all, forgive my rant.
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|~|ypermegachi
Old 02-17-2005, 04:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
In NL, in general, hands like aj,kq, kj, k10, qj, q10, are trash. They can't stand a raise, Throw them away.
against a raise they are trash in limit too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
In NL you can double up with suited connectors. In limit you will not be a winner to suited connectors over the long run, I promise.
depends how loose the table is. you haven't seen the limit players at pacific have you....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Demiparadigm
In NL you can protect your hand, In limit you usually have odds to chase almost any draw. In NL, I don't chase unless I have 2 overcards and a draw to the nuts. (old school style)
protecting a hand and chasing a draw are 2 completely different things.

also, with 4 outs to fill up 2 pair is a very robust hand. you are completely disregarding implied odds here.
 
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aleksandr
Old 02-17-2005, 05:25 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
In NL, in general, hands like aj,kq, kj, k10, qj, q10, are trash. They can't stand a raise, Throw them away.
No.
Operation Learn to Read
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aleksandr
Old 02-17-2005, 05:29 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Sorry about that last one, I didn't mean to be 2+2 about it, but if played correctly with an aggressive table image these hands can be great moneywinners - you have chances for TPGK, 2 pair, and straight and flush draws all over. You just gotta know when to fold 'em and they're very profitable hands.
Operation Learn to Read
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Money: $31
SNGs: 0
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