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mcatdog
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08-17-2006, 02:18 AM
Post subject: Let's talk about dry ace flops
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Here's a situation I've been thinking about today. You raise pre-flop from the button and get called by the big blind. The flop is ace high with no real draws, let's say, A83 rainbow. The big blind checks to you.
What's your plan with the following hands? First, let's say the big blind is someone you've never played with before but he smells like a fish.
1. 88
2. AK
3. A4
4. KK
5. 99
6. JT
Now, suppose the big blind is a regular TAG who knows how you play. Answer the same six questions again. Are you mixing up your play with any of these hands and how often?
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i check behinda lot here and raise the turn with most hands vs the fish and probably play little differently against a thinking player, although id be tempted to bet flop more often.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I bet JT always, 99 a lot. A4/AK sometimes, AK more against a fish because they play Ax a lot. I rarely bet 88 here, and KK is always a check.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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So if you bet here, you probably don't have anything. I noticed that the same is true for myself. This is horribly exploitable by a decent TAG, looks like we need to come up with a better strategy that includes betting more often with good hands or checking more often with air.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i want to get a lot of money in on later streets vs fish because he has no idea my flop check is weakness/very strong and will prob call down a whole lot (most often this is good for me)
I dont want to scare off a tag when i have a good hand so betting a range i automatic
(i think that makes sense its 4am ffs)
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andy-akb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,836
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Saying this is against a fish changes things a lot. How does he play postflop? Some very loose players preflop fold to nearly any bet postflop, while other calls nearly any bet. Against a player that calls too often Im checking behind the hands that missed and KK, and betting the hands that hit as well as 99. Checking behind KK is explained below and should be fairly standard against most opponents, and betting 99 because a lot of cards can come on the turn to act as scare cards. Those type of opponents really dont seem to pay much attention and generally would not pick up on the fact that all of our bets are for value. Against the player that folds too often, Im really not too sure what to suggest. Doing the opposite may make sense, betting only hands that miss or that need protection and slowplaying strong hands on a dry board but a weak player is more likely to pick up on this than a calling station, so I dont really know waht to say and would probably play it similarly to what Id do against a tagg, maybe not betting the set though.
Against a regular that I am going to be facing day in and day out, I am betting every hand except for AK and KK. Checking behind KK is good because we are most likely not getting called by a hand that we beat and can get a bet or call out of worse hands on later streets. Since we are checking behind KK and betting nearly every other hand we have to balance it out against a thinking player so Id do that by checking behind a strong hand that hit like AK. I dont want to give up too much value by checking the set here, but I also dont want to check behind a marginal hand like A4, so I think AK is a good hand to balance it out with.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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Most of the time I'm betting with everything - it's the turn where my tougher decisions come. I try to be wary of these dry boards though and exercise caution when I'm called and I only have a marginal holding.
Against certain opponents like a calling station or anyone who's likely to check-raise me I might be checking with any of the last 4 hands - A4, KK, 99, and particularly JT. There are a number of other reasons I might do this, but it's a less likely scenario. Fish may call with AT when I have AK, and the regular is more likely to call with a weaker holding if he knows I'm just as likely to hold nothing as TPTK. My biggest problem arises when people start check-raising me with TP weak kicker or less.
I'm playing fairly aggressively at $25NL, and although I lose a few big hands, I'm getting enough action with my strong hands to make it worthwhile. I think against more aware players less c-bets would be appropriate.
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Fnord
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08-17-2006, 10:16 PM
Post subject: Re: Let's talk about dry ace flops
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#8 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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1. 88 - 95% bet unless the money isn't deep
2. AK - 90% bet
3. A4 - 25% bet
4. KK - 10% bet
5. 99 - 90% bet
6. JT - 90% bet
All assume I'm against someone that tries to play well and tends to fold a little too much to flop bets.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Wow, I spill the goods and no one replies...
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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Is this more interesting if we're OOP? Let's say we raise from the CO and Button calls, and our A4 and JT are sooted...
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Miffed22001
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08-19-2006, 12:38 AM
Post subject: Re: Let's talk about dry ace flops
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#11 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
1. 88 - 95% bet unless the money isn't deep
2. AK - 90% bet
3. A4 - 25% bet
4. KK - 10% bet
5. 99 - 90% bet
6. JT - 90% bet
All assume I'm against someone that tries to play well and tends to fold a little too much to flop bets.
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plz help me not to suck
kthx 
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