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Lessons-Learned / Bad-Habits Being Formed??

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hankr

02-17-2005, 06:17 PM Post subject: Lessons-Learned / Bad-Habits Being Formed??

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Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 34

Just for perspective, I have been playing 2+ months at 1-2 cent NL, and taken a stake from $15 to $75. This week I reached my $75 goal and "graduated" to 5-10 cent NL games (first 3 sessions all winners!).

I also read my first HE book this week, Sklanskly/Malmuth/Miller's Small Stakes Hold Em, and have some observations re: No Limit. They probably are not revelations to you veterans, but they have been to me and might be worthwhile to others. I'm also curious to others' comments on my observations.

1. "Value" betting
It seems value-betting is less necessary in NL than described in the book for Limit games. I can get as much in the pot as I want anytime, and at these micro-levels, there is (almost) always a caller. Why bet draw-hands til I catch, if others let me see those cards cheaply? I will sometimes small-bet draw-hands from early in the ring just to provide variety and disguise to my patterns tho, also to get others "committed" to the pot.

2. Middle, even Lo-pairs are not auto-folds
I was folding every lo-or-middle pair to most any bet at all, figuring I was beat. I'll now call 1 or 2 BBs with them, esp with overcard(s) or a backdoor S/F possibility. Seems obvious, but it wasn't to me. I was too tight. I didn't realize that in NL, if I catch that set I can maybe take down a very big pot. In limit, the pot builds only gradually to a set maximum, making long-shot plays a poor strategy. But I "chase" only if permitted to do so VERY cheaply (1-2 BBs).

3. Position can Changed... sort of
Watching pre-flop bets and raisers makes a big difference. Post-flop, most everyone checks to the pre-flop raiser, which can "switch" you from bad position to good position (or vice-versa) when the real decisions must be made.

4. I Like Suited Connectors (4-5 and higher)
This may be heresy, but I'll play them for a flop up to maybe 3 BBs. I'll also play them against multi-raise pre-flop action up to maybe 5-6, even 8 BBs. With everyone probably playing royalty, a rag-board that improves me can be my big advantage with many players already committed to their aggressive hand-play and me on maybe 2-pair or a straight draw (I'm cautious with my lo-card flush draws). This is sort of "going against the grain", and seems to have been profitable, sometime VERY profitable. This tactic would never be viable in Limit.

5. I hate Pocket 9s and Ts
But I'll bet em pre-flop anyway... maybe 3-5 BBs. But I'm not afraid to toss em against middling post-flop bets with an overcard or 2 on the board. No overcard, I try to take it down right then or make the Turn overly-expensive to callers. In the micro-level tho, with so many callers, I'm still not convinced slow-playing these isn't better than pre-flop betting them.

6. I target seeing 35% of the flops
I know this is more than suggested... but for three weeks (1-2 cent game) I tried to limit myself to 25% and got nowhere. In the micro-limit game, I got pegged as being so tight I squeaked, and couldn't get bets I did make called like the other players' bets did. Even at 35%, I'd guess 9-out-of-10 other players see more flops than I do... I still appear tight.

7. Bluff seldom, and use chat to be sure everyone notices
Maybe 3 times an hour I'll try to bluff/buy a small pot for short money. Half the time I'm caught, and I always use chat with some comment like "Good Play... Ya caught me trying to steal one" so everyone notices I tried. Seems corny, but many micro-players won't notice on their own... also opponents playing multi-games at once. Between those I steal and those I'm caught, I probably break even.

8. Pot Odds -vs- Implied Odds
I was using a chart for guidance with "Pot Odds" for OS/IS/Flush draws after the Flop and Turn. This chart is no-doubt correct for the break-even point AT THAT TIME the decision is made, but it ignores the HUGE implied-odds upside one can achieve in NL when one catches. I've loosened my calling criteria somewhat (but not very scientifically).

Just thought some of this might be of interest to others. Would love comments from more-seasoned players.

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TylerK

02-17-2005, 06:34 PM

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All good points. Remember that as you move up it is a lot harder to get your flush draw paid off when it hits, so the implied odds aren't always so reliable.

Re: small suited connectors and baby pairs, I also like to call a preflop raise with these. Though playing them in an unraised pot means you get to see the flop more cheaply, it's also less likely that much more money is going in if you do happen to hit big.

TylerK: its just gambling if i want to worry about money i'll go to work lol

gabe

02-17-2005, 06:48 PM

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gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

that book is really for limit, much of it wont apply to NL

jmontis

03-07-2005, 03:18 AM

#4 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,296

low/middle pairs can be devastating if someone doesn't raise their AQ/AK and flop comes AK5 and you have 55..... one of the biggest money makers is a flop like that in NL.

But also, as you get higher in NL stakes, you'll see drawing hands are very tricky to play, considering someone might make you pay 2x the pot to see the next card.

also, value betting is more for limit than NL, no reason to do pot sized bets with AK when you are clearly behind or even out of the hand.

Greedo017

03-07-2005, 03:53 AM

#5 (permalink)

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here are a few tips i would give you.

pocket pairs, you're right. IMO, i limp 22-JJ. I've tried betting JJ, but i find i either win small or lose big, so i limp it. and, i actually would rather limp these into a 3-5x raised pot, than an unraised one. means if you hit, you're more likely to get paid.
*i wouldn't raise 9's and 10's. at your level, there will be overcards and betters every time. limp.

suited connectors are good, play them the same as pocket pairs. if you hit trips, 2 pair, flush, or straight, run with it, careful with draws, otherwise fold.

35% is a tiny bit high but understandable, maybe aim for 30%.

implied odds yes are good, but make sure you understand them, and don't give them so so much credit.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

JeffreyGB

03-07-2005, 05:52 AM Post subject: Re: Lessons-Learned / Bad-Habits Being Formed??

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hankr

8. Pot Odds -vs- Implied Odds
I was using a chart for guidance with "Pot Odds" for OS/IS/Flush draws after the Flop and Turn. This chart is no-doubt correct for the break-even point AT THAT TIME the decision is made, but it ignores the HUGE implied-odds upside one can achieve in NL when one catches. I've loosened my calling criteria somewhat (but not very scientifically).

The only time I would consider this to be significantly valid would be on the turn (and then still situation-dependent). I pay more credit to implied odds for a straight than a flush (and more for a low one than a high one) because people don't expect you to play those cards.

On the flop, the implied cost of another bet coming on the turn at the very least cancels out any implied odds if you make your hand. You could only count implied odds here if you're doing the odds for making it on the turn exclusively. It's getting to the point that I'll do just that most of the time, since it's almost given to assume another bet will come on the turn. With implied odds, I'll up it to the point that I'll call 1/2 pot or less bets with major draws on the flop. More than that and it's just not worth it...who's to say they won't bet the pot on the turn?

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