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FaZzBoy
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07-14-2010, 01:55 PM
Post subject: Leaving ring games
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#1 (permalink)
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High Card
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
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Hey,
I'm a new member to this forum and a fairly new player to poker. I'm not that great of a poker player and I'm here to just try and learn more about poker generally and to find ways to improve my poker.
For today I have a question. When do you think it is standard to leave a ring game? I have read somewhere before that:
Quote:
You should only join a ring game with 5% of your BR maximum.
You should leave any ring game when the money on the table becomes 10% of your bankroll as soon as the blinds hit.
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I think this is from Chris Ferguson's "building a bankroll from nothing" challenge and I think it's saying you should leave when you double up your original 5% maximum buy in.
How do you perceive these guidlines? Are they profitable or do you use something different?
Would you change the rule depending on your BR size to the BB limit you are playing at ratio? For example if you've just moved up to a new limit as your BR is just about big enough to do so, would you change the rule?
FaZzBoy.
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kfaess
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 556
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This is the beginners digest
This is a post in the beginners digest about bankroll management
Good luck
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c4ptain_obv
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One Pair
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 20
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Are you planning on playing fullring or 6max? Because 6m can have a bit more variance so you should make adaptions in your BRmanagement
(but that will prob be in the BD)
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chatzilla
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 360
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Welcome, I'd recommended reading all of the Beginners Digest which is a fantastic place to start:
Beginners Digest: LEARNING STARTS HERE
Also it covers the important aspects of proper BR management here:
Bankroll Management 101. Important to new players.
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FaZzBoy
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High Card
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c4ptain_obv
Are you planning on playing fullring or 6max? Because 6m can have a bit more variance so you should make adaptions in your BRmanagement
(but that will prob be in the BD)
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I like to play both. However I've noticed that there are quite a few bad players in the 6max games at the low stakes who become very LAG as time goes on. Also I think they may have been informed to widen their range and they sometimes go over the top with this and start raising things like K8o UTG.
So I mainly go TAG and play 6max to try to exploit this. As I think there may be quite a bit of profit to be made from this.
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FaZzBoy
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High Card
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chatzilla
Welcome, I'd recommended reading all of the Beginners Digest which is a fantastic place to start
Also it covers the important aspects of proper BR management
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Thank you for the links. I've already read a few articles in there. Got to admit, they are pretty awesome articles. I did come across what sort of stakes I should be playing and what sort of buy-ins I should be putting foward. However I didn't come across something which was explaining when it would be a good time to leave a ring game session. Or maybe I somehow missed this information or may not have come to an article explaining it. I'll keep searching though. Thanks.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaZzBoy
I think this is from Chris Ferguson's "building a bankroll from nothing" challenge and I think it's saying you should leave when you double up your original 5% maximum buy in.
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Leaving a game your wtf pwning is silly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Well you can take shots at a higher level with less than 20 buy-ins(5% of your roll), especially if you've beaten that level or higher levels consistently with a bit of volume. When you buy-in to a game you should be comfortable losing every cent you put on the table, so if you buy-in for 100 big blinds and double up to 200 big blinds, and now you have 10% of your roll on the table, you should feel comfortable losing that amount. Just play when the game is good and leave if it gets bad.....
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Duffryn
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 115
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Doubling your initial buy in is a reason to stay in a game rather than leave, as it implies you are beating the other players. The only thing that you have to watch is that the more you win, the deeper stacked you are relative to the blinds. If there are 1 or 2 others around who have a stack the same size or bigger than you, then it becomes more profitable for them to call with speculative hands, if they have a shot at getting their hands on your stack if they hit the flop hard.
The best time to leave a game is just before you have to pay the BB and when the bad players that you were crushing have left.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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20 buy-ins is woefully inadequate for any level. Just practice and learn the game and moving up will happen when its supposed to. I recommend not moving up until you have at least 100 buy-ins for the next level. Or at least 50 with a plan for moving down if you spew off a chunk.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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100 buy-ins is a tad much at levels that don't mean a whole hell of a lot money-wise, don't ya think? I just don't believe anyone that's worth a spit would have to spend more than 20k hands at 10nl and below and to gain 100 buy-ins it would take a hell of a lot longer than that. There's dangers to playing under-rolled but there's also a lot of disadvantages to playing super-rolled when you're not playing to pay the bills (i.e. - micro stakes).
In regards to leaving a table, I like to bounce around a lot. I leave when the game gets too tight, when all the fish leave, when I'm deep but no other fish are, etc. There's no sense staying at a table if you're not comfortable with the dynamics. There's hundreds of online sites and thousands upon thousands of tables.
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FaZzBoy
it's saying you should leave when you double up your original 5% maximum buy in..
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first, check whether your effective stack is deep - if you have 240bb but the next biggest stack at the table is 120bb then you are not playing deep, you are effectively playing 120bb.
If you are deep then it's time to ask a few questions:
1) are you comfortable playing deep, or do you get horribly lost?
2) are the players who cover good, bad, or terrible?
3) what is your position relative to the other deep stacks?
4) are you going to feel ok about poker/life/whatever if you get stacked
I leave tables because i feel too deep for the situation sometimes, there is nothing wrong with doing so. Typically it will be when i'm 250bb+ deep and the one or two regs in my games that trouble me sometimes are to my immediate left and cover. That said, if there is also a whale to my right then i'll stick around.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGrinder
100 buy-ins is a tad much at levels that don't mean a whole hell of a lot money-wise, don't ya think? I just don't believe anyone that's worth a spit would have to spend more than 20k hands at 10nl and below and to gain 100 buy-ins it would take a hell of a lot longer than that. There's dangers to playing under-rolled but there's also a lot of disadvantages to playing super-rolled when you're not playing to pay the bills (i.e. - micro stakes).
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If there's no pressure to pay bills, why move up fast? Skill increases a lot slower than BR, why not do it the right way the first time?
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Because 100 buyins is completely ridiculous.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKDS
Because 100 buyins is completely ridiculous.
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Until you hit your first 25+ buy-in downswing
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Until you hit your first 25+ buy-in downswing
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Which doesnt happen as often at micros because ppl literally just give u money, and thats also why we have drop down stop loss limits
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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you can only really lose 25BI at 1 stake if you don't drop down
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Why would you need to drop down if you have 100 buy-ins? Then you can just stay at that level and grind it back up twice as fast. 
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Why would you need to drop down if you have 100 buy-ins? Then you can just stay at that level and grind it back up twice as fast. |
but it takes you 4 times as long to get to that level in the first place
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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C'mon now, if it takes 100 buy-ins at every level from 2nl to 50nl to learn how to play poker, then just quit the game. It's not for you. Outlaw, playing over-rolled is your choice. But I don't think sticking around for 100k hands in micro hell is the best use of someone's time, not to mention stunting one's growth.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StarGrinder
C'mon now, if it takes 100 buy-ins at every level from 2nl to 50nl to learn how to play poker, then just quit the game. It's not for you. Outlaw, playing over-rolled is your choice. But I don't think sticking around for 100k hands in micro hell is the best use of someone's time, not to mention stunting one's growth.
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100 buy-ins is not overolled.. its the minimum roll in a lot of people's opinions, I didn't make this up 
Anyways, we shouldn't be thinking in terms of having enough to move up, we should be thinking in terms of having the game to move up. As spoon once said, our bankroll is our cup. Do you want a 20 buy-in tin foil cup or a diamond plated steel 100 buy-in cup?
I admit its okay to take shots at around 50 buy-ins.. but not really necessary. 100 buy-ins isn't really that much. I've built my roll from $200 to $3,700 in the last two months and only moved up at 50 buy-ins. I still play 25NL and take shots occasionally at 50NL. I will start taking shots at 100NL at 5k.
I wouldn't recommend a beginner try this.. they will get murdered at 50NL if they haven't put in the necessary time and effort.. and believe me, you can get "rolled" for 50NL long before you can beat it.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
100 buy-ins is not overolled.. its the minimum roll in a lot of people's opinions, I didn't make this up
Anyways, we shouldn't be thinking in terms of having enough to move up, we should be thinking in terms of having the game to move up. As spoon once said, our bankroll is our cup. Do you want a 20 buy-in tin foil cup or a diamond plated steel 100 buy-in cup?
I admit its okay to take shots at around 50 buy-ins.. but not really necessary. 100 buy-ins isn't really that much. I've built my roll from $200 to $3,700 in the last two months and only moved up at 50 buy-ins. I still play 25NL and take shots occasionally at 50NL. I will start taking shots at 100NL at 5k.
I wouldn't recommend a beginner try this.. they will get murdered at 50NL if they haven't put in the necessary time and effort.. and believe me, you can get "rolled" for 50NL long before you can beat it. |
usually people can beat the level above them within 2 months
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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You're right about learning > bankroll at low levels, I just can't fathom why it would take 100k hands at each level to learn fundamental concepts. I guess we'll just agree to disagree then. Then again, I'm back down donking around @ 5nl so what do I know.
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Outlaw
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish
usually people can beat the level above them within 2 months
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Define beat
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Moving up and you
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bigspenda
3. Am I properly bankrolled for a full shot at the next level?
A "full shot" is much different than a typical shot, or attempt to move to the next level. A full shot would be a cushion of 10+ buyins that you are willing to lose before moving back down to your current stake. In general a player should move down when they only have 30 buy-ins for the lower of the two levels.
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Bankroll Management 101
Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500blgorilla
You can find the accurate numbers for a proper bankroll all over this great forum of ours. But I like 15-30 buyins for No Limit
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Various 2p2 articles advocating 30ish
The 2+2 Forum Archives: Bankroll Management: Low Stakes
Bankroll Management - Heads-Up No Limit Poker Strategy - Heads Up No Limit Poker Forum
Why you suck at uNL Part Two: Bankroll Management - Beginning Poker Questions - Beginner Poker Forum
Concept of the Week #20: Zen and the Art of Bankroll Management - Micro Stakes Full Ring Games - Micro Stakes Poker Strategy Forum
Cmon now. 100 is excessive period. /thread lock kthxbai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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Imthenewfish
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: sites im allowed to play on
Posts: 945
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in b4 lock
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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{Locked}
Read the stickies.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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