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Learning How to Fold

  
 
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Kbryce23
Old 03-30-2009, 01:31 AM     Post subject: Learning How to Fold #1 (permalink)  
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After going through a pretty bad downswing I realized I was stacking off way too much when I should have known I was beat. Also I was told this was a leak by a grinderschool instructor during a coaching session. Here is a couple of hands from tonights session where I would normally have called. Im more worried about the first hand. Is it an easy fold?

Villians stats are 12/5/2.5 150 hands his check-raise stat says 0% if that matters

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($7.60)
UTG ($8.20)
UTG+1 ($5.85)
MP1 ($6.60)
MP2 ($15.60)
Hero (CO) ($10)
Button ($9.70)
SB ($10)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6, 6
UTG bets $0.30, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, 2 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.25) 6, 10, 8 (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.40, MP2 calls $0.40, Hero raises to $1.90, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $4, Hero folds

Total pot: $5.45 | Rake: $0.25

Villian is very passive 12/0/1.0 over 130 hands

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($11.75)
Hero (MP2) ($14.30)
MP3 ($16.55)
CO ($12.45)
Button ($3.45)
SB ($2.65)
BB ($3.55)
UTG ($10.90)
UTG+1 ($6.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with J, J
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, Hero bets $0.50, 2 folds, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB calls $0.40, MP1 calls $0.40

Flop: ($2.05) 10, 7, 3 (4 players)
BB bets $0.20, MP1 raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1.60, 1 fold, BB calls $1.40, MP1 raises to $3.20, Hero folds, BB calls $1.45 (All-In)

Turn: ($9.75) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($9.75) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $9.75 | Rake: $0.45
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AFchung
Old 03-30-2009, 01:42 AM #2 (permalink)  
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wow hand 1....

please stack off with hand1
http://afchung.blogspot.com/
 
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bikes
Old 03-30-2009, 01:48 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1 is so sick. Like. Wow. This is really sick. This fold is not easy but I would cry and make it.
I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters
 
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Kbryce23
Old 03-30-2009, 01:52 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFchung
wow hand 1....

please stack off with hand1
What can I beat? If he is on a flush draw wouldnt he raise larger as a semibluff?
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Kbryce23
Old 03-30-2009, 02:13 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Could have AA i guess. I have seem some villians play AA this way.
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Outlaw
Old 03-30-2009, 02:29 AM     Post subject: Re: Learning How to Fold #6 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 is an easy stack off. Never fold a set on the flop. I mean never.. I don't care if its a 3 flush or 3 to a straight board. You always have plenty of equity for it to be a winning play.

Hand 2 is fine as played... don't ya hate when its 4-way and ya flop an overpair?
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Kbryce23
Old 03-30-2009, 02:55 AM     Post subject: Re: Learning How to Fold #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Hand 1 is an easy stack off. Never fold a set on the flop. I mean never.. I don't care if its a 3 flush or 3 to a straight board. You always have plenty of equity for it to be a winning play.

Hand 2 is fine as played... don't ya hate when its 4-way and ya flop an overpair?
I dont think I ever folded a set on the flop before. Oh well I tried
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dranger7070
Old 03-30-2009, 02:55 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Hand 1: you beat JJ+ for one, FD's will raise, Pairs + gutshots might, pairs + FD's, two pair, etc. Stack off. If he has u set < set, im sorry. It happens.

Hand 2: Fold it, too much action, QQ+, TT, 77, 33 all beat u, plus two pairs, lots of draws, you just don't have good equity in this pot.
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bigspenda73
Old 03-30-2009, 02:59 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 pokerstove hand 1 guys

probably a fold
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bikes
Old 03-30-2009, 03:10 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 FFS sets are not an autostack off.
I damage threads that may actually benefit some posters
 
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Old 03-30-2009, 04:13 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Board: 6c Th 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.622% 56.04% 00.58% 53263 550.50 { AA, TT, 88, 66, AcQc, AcTc, Ac9c, Ac7c, 97s, 97o }
Hand 1: 43.378% 42.80% 00.58% 40676 550.50 { 66 }

I mean if we think he has a really strong range here, might as well call since his raise is small

even if he has the nuts we have tons of outs
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amir is cool
Old 03-30-2009, 02:35 PM #12 (permalink)  
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why would you fold a set on the flop
Quote:
[21:38] <dranger> WTF HAPPENED WHEN I WENT TO BOOT CAMP
[21:40] <kiwiMark> THERE IS A NEW PRESIDENT OF THE UNITES STATES CALLED BARACK OBAMA AND HE'S NOT VERY WHITE
[21:40] <kiwiMark> THIS IS NOT A LEVEL.
 
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Outlaw
Old 03-30-2009, 03:34 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Board: 6c Th 8c
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 72.322% 71.95% 00.37% 39176 203.50 { 6d6s }
Hand 1: 27.678% 27.30% 00.37% 14867 203.50 { QQ-88, AcKc, AcQc, AcJc, ATs, Ac9c, Ac8c, Ac7c, Ac6c, Ac5c, Ac4c, Ac3c, Ac2c, KcQc, KcJc, KTs, QcTc, JcTc, QJo }


I would not have 79 or 108 in villains range. He probably reraises QQ, but not necessarily after an UTG raise.. depends on his read on the raiser. If you have a read that he won't play big FDs fast this can be revised.

Every time someone lays down a set on the flop, a baby monkey falls out of a tree somewhere.
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Illfavor
Old 03-30-2009, 03:36 PM #14 (permalink)  
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 I'm sorry, but no draws do this. No overs+fd do this at 10nl. AA does not really do this. And if any of them do, it's rare. I think this is a fine, well-considered fold.
Ich grolle nicht...
 
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Monty3038
Old 03-30-2009, 03:54 PM     Post subject: Re: Learning How to Fold #15 (permalink)  
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Stupid analysis removed by me, for missing the point.
 
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ArcadianRock
Old 03-30-2009, 04:01 PM #16 (permalink)  
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For hand one I can see villain doing this with the nut flush draw, certainly would be an understandable play. And this is good too because it still gives you a chance for the board to pair.
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Monty3038
Old 03-30-2009, 04:13 PM #17 (permalink)  
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My stupidity removed by me.
 
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bigspenda73
Old 03-30-2009, 04:15 PM #18 (permalink)  
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 i hope everyone realizes the villain is not the PFR'er.
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Monty3038
Old 03-30-2009, 04:23 PM #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
i hope everyone realizes the villain is not the PFR'er.
Nope they don't.

I didn't.

Posts removed.
 
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Illfavor
Old 03-30-2009, 04:40 PM #20 (permalink)  
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 Realistic range: 97s, 88, TT, imo.
Ich grolle nicht...
 
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LawDude
Old 03-30-2009, 06:36 PM     Post subject: Re: Learning How to Fold #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Outlaw
Hand 1 is an easy stack off. Never fold a set on the flop. I mean never.. I don't care if its a 3 flush or 3 to a straight board. You always have plenty of equity for it to be a winning play.
Never say never. Suppose a total nit with a deep stack makes his first pre-flop raise of the night after 6 hours of play, and 4 players with deep stacks call it. You have 77 and decide to call figuring you can try to setmine. The flop comes AK7. Nit bets 3/4 of the pot, other players fold, you raise, and nit now shoves all-in.

Do you fold your set on the flop?
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Kbryce23
Old 03-31-2009, 01:07 AM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Illfavor
I'm sorry, but no draws do this. No overs+fd do this at 10nl. AA does not really do this. And if any of them do, it's rare. I think this is a fine, well-considered fold.
Thank you
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:24 AM #23 (permalink)  
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I definitely would play that way with Jc9c actually as well
I flat on the flop to hope for other callers since I have a draw that dominates a lot of other draws (except for the nut flush draw) and is ahead of a flopped straight

then after it's heads up I try to get it in
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Benzooka
Old 03-31-2009, 03:04 AM #24 (permalink)  
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He's definetly not aggresive enough to do this with draws, so if you think he's bad enough to do this with draws shove it in. Otherwise he's got a nut hand. 66 is the worst nut hand. You're at the bottom of his range. Fold.
If you planned to "suck out" you did the first half.
 
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