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drumphil
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04-14-2005, 04:07 PM
Post subject: Laying Down Top Two Pair on the Flop?
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 17
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Hey Guys,
This hand has come into play for me alot the last week in live and online games;
In some situations I was the one with the top two pair and other situations was on the str & or flu draw. This weekend I went all in against top two pair at a live game and hit my flush on the turn (I also had an up and down straight draw as well). Two weeks earlier at my home game I got busted out with top two pair on the flop against an up & down straight draw that hit on the turn.
If you have top two pair and someone pushes (no raises pre flop so you assume there is not a set made) and there are two suited cards on the flop what should you do?
Correct me if I'm wrong but the chance of you winning is 65 % if against someone on a flush draw ? As the % of the person on the flush draw is 35% of hitting. Also you have 4 outs to improve your hand to the boat, which is 16.5% of one of them hitting right ?
So with these #’s what is the right play to do if you're certain (or as much as you can be) that he didn't hit a set and is more then likely on a draw?
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melinda27
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 165
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you call as fast as you can. Top 2 is very strong, no need to fear a flush or a straight. If it comes it comes thats just poker.
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Bo G
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 274
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I would worry more about a set than a flush/straight draw.
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jmontis
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,296
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very few people push on the flop with a set, unless the action is real crazy. Even the most aggressive players are looking to extract money with that.
Two pair is never the nuts, but it is definitely a strong calling hand.
edit: I also busted out of a live $.50-1 NL cash game a while back with top 2 pair, the guy set me all in with an OESD, and I beat him into the pot with the call. He hit on the river though.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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if you think you're up against a draw push. there was some guy on like wpt, who did a running push, he'd walk up as close to the audience as possible, then run up to the table and say all-in as he waved his hands toward the middle. do that.
now, i usually don't push with two pair, because the only person pushing back will have a set imo. although sometimes people will be absolutely retarded and push with draws. someone pushed the river on me with nothing but a flush draw yesterday... wasn't a little pot either, this was like half his stack.... i was like, yesss 50 more for my laptop....
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BIGandRICH
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jazz Club
Posts: 419
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You were all in on a draw??? are you crazy?? thats a good way to lose money, if you dont understand pot odds then you should go find out about them, if you have already learnt about them you need to revise them... if you push on flush draw you stand to lose your money 2 times for every one hit, if you push on the turn, 4 losses for each hit.. think about what that can cost you
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villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
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JeffreyGB
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Jenks, OK
Posts: 3,477
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by BIGandRICH
You were all in on a draw??? are you crazy?? thats a good way to lose money, if you dont understand pot odds...
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Being on a draw and playing according to pot odds doesn't necessarily mean you can't go/call all-in. First, there's always the chance that you'll win through the opp folding (assuming you're the pusher). Second, if the pot is large enough, this can be profitable, according to the odds. If the pot is bigger than your stack, pushing on a flush draw will actually result in a long term profit, though the variance will be a bit crazy.
Note: I'm not speaking about this situation, but just to your incredulous "Why would you go all-in on a draw!??" There are times that it's the correct play.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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It sounds like he had an open ended straight + flush draw on the flop and then he is actually a slight favourite to win. With money in the pot already and the chance of the opponent folding this is the correct play in my opinion.
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BIGandRICH
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Jazz Club
Posts: 419
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yes, i realise there is a time to make a move like that, i read his post as him calling all in rather than pushing, though after having re-read i see that was not the case
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villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
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