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Lay down AA?

  
 
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TonyB73
Old 04-13-2008, 06:07 AM     Post subject: Lay down AA? #1 (permalink)  
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($1.48)
CO ($12.05)
Button ($1.75)
SB ($9.95)
BB ($10.49)
UTG ($5.92)
Hero ($10.19)
MP1 ($4.41)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, 4 folds, SB raises to $0.35, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.6, SB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($1.25) K, K, J (2 players)
SB bets $0.45, Hero calls $0.45.

Turn: ($2.15) 6 (2 players)
SB bets $1.1, Hero ???

Villain is 30/22/4.5 (73 hands)

What would you do?
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Fnord
Old 04-13-2008, 08:30 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Call it down.
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daven
Old 04-13-2008, 08:59 AM     Post subject: Re: Lay down AA? #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB73
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A, A.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, 4 folds, SB raises to $0.35, 1 fold, [color=#CC3333]Hero raises to $1.10

What would you do?
I'd re-raise more pre-flop.
As played I'd call flop and re-assess on turn.
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poker_pup
Old 04-13-2008, 12:53 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I'd call. I'm guessing villian had AJ.
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swiggidy
Old 04-13-2008, 05:04 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 snap call turn

pre make it $1. Right now he only has to call 25c into a 95c pot. He's correct to call with any 2.

And you'll see the J here more than the K.
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TonyB73
Old 04-14-2008, 12:08 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I'm a bit surprised everyone is saying call here.

Villain re-raised me pre-flop, and my experience at 5NL suggests that doesn't happen very often without a premium hand. With that flop I'm a dog against AK, KK, KQ, KJ, JJ. I'm also beaten by Kx, although I think that unlikely. About the only "premium" hand I'm beating is QQ. Obviously I tie with AA, and as pointed out I'm beating AJ, but that seems to me a marginal pre-flop re-raise hand here.

Am I missing something here? Or maybe you think my estimated range for villain is too tight?
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TonyB73
Old 04-14-2008, 12:12 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiggidy
snap call turn

pre make it $1. Right now he only has to call 25c into a 95c pot. He's correct to call with any 2.

And you'll see the J here more than the K.
Good point, and that was my mistake. I meant to re-raise it to 4x, but instead re-raised to 4x the amount of his re-raise over my raise (ie. 4 x 15c). Confusing sentence that, but hopefully you follow what I mean!
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littleogre
Old 04-14-2008, 07:20 PM #8 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyB73
I'm a bit surprised everyone is saying call here.

Villain re-raised me pre-flop, and my experience at 5NL suggests that doesn't happen very often without a premium hand. With that flop I'm a dog against AK, KK, KQ, KJ, JJ. I'm also beaten by Kx, although I think that unlikely. About the only "premium" hand I'm beating is QQ. Obviously I tie with AA, and as pointed out I'm beating AJ, but that seems to me a marginal pre-flop re-raise hand here.

Am I missing something here? Or maybe you think my estimated range for villain is too tight?
yes i for one think you are puting the villan on to tight of a range. Also players at this level make horrible bluffs all the time.
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Gooser
Old 04-14-2008, 07:33 PM #9 (permalink)  

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It is defiantly a tricky one. I would probably call to see the river, but then be just as confused unless one of the remaining two aces comes out.

I guess you would have to know what kind of hands he has been raising with before this one.
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dave5813
Old 04-16-2008, 05:38 PM #10 (permalink)  

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please push preflop to that.. on the flop you could raise his bet while its still pretty cheap and if he checks on next card u can check then call river otherwise if he bets turn after you raised flop you can probably get away from this hand
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givememyleg
Old 04-16-2008, 05:46 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 Forget making it $1 preflop, make it $1.5 to go and make this hand easy to play.

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martindcx1e
Old 04-16-2008, 06:20 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave5813
please push preflop to that.
no
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SkyLowLow
Old 04-20-2008, 02:54 PM #13 (permalink)  

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Pushing preflop is a fault. I would fold after the turn. There a too many hands which dominate AA. AA wins only 80% of the time.
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spoonitnow
Old 04-20-2008, 04:22 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyLowLow
Pushing preflop is a fault. I would fold after the turn. There a too many hands which dominate AA. AA wins only 80% of the time.
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langaan
Old 04-21-2008, 05:48 PM     Post subject: . #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Call it down.
i dunno, i think i'm re-raising his flop bet, but if not im definately re-raising his minibet on the turn.

i see this alot at my level (25NL) and those 1/3 pot bets tell me he likes his hole cards but hates those kings.

i think hes either got QQ and thinks he is blockbetting you, or he has Ax with a str draw.
either way, calling this down will be ugly if a 10/J/Q hit on the river.

i think hes folding anything without a K if re-raised on the flop.

if he had a AK/KQ type hand, he's checking that flop like 95% of the time

imo that small flop bet is his way of asking you if you got the king, id answer with a re-raise and get him to fold is AQ/QQ

on the river, the only hand he is going to give you another mini-bet on is a hand that beats you.
and if he bets pot on the river, he could still be beating you, or he could be bluffing since you told him on the flop and turn that you dont have the king when you didnt re-raise.

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GatorJH
Old 04-21-2008, 08:30 PM     Post subject: Re: . #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
imo that small flop bet is his way of asking you if you got the king, id answer with a re-raise and get him to fold is AQ/QQ
If he has AQ or QQ you don't want him to fold. AQ is playing to 4 outs, QQ is playing to two.
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langaan
Old 04-21-2008, 09:50 PM     Post subject: Re: . #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJH
Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
imo that small flop bet is his way of asking you if you got the king, id answer with a re-raise and get him to fold is AQ/QQ
If he has AQ or QQ you don't want him to fold. AQ is playing to 4 outs, QQ is playing to two.
not if he has AQh on that turn.... you now have 15 scare cards for the river
any jack, any Q, any 10 and any heart.

not te mention the fact that we may already be beat...

i cant count the amount of times ive seen villain put minibets in to draw down cheaply. and as great it is to play against those players, i just dont think we want to allow it on this flop.

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ndpg
Old 04-22-2008, 01:30 PM #18 (permalink)  
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i would put him on ak
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GatorJH
Old 04-22-2008, 03:19 PM     Post subject: Re: . #19 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJH
Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
imo that small flop bet is his way of asking you if you got the king, id answer with a re-raise and get him to fold is AQ/QQ
If he has AQ or QQ you don't want him to fold. AQ is playing to 4 outs, QQ is playing to two.
not if he has AQh on that turn.... you now have 15 scare cards for the river
any jack, any Q, any 10 and any heart.
How are you counting these outs? If villian has exactly AhQh (which if you can put him on an exact hand you are sooo much better than I am) his outs after the turn are the 9 remaining hearts and the other 3 tens for a total of 12 outs.

Neither a (non heart )J nor a Q help villian - DUCY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
not te mention the fact that we may already be beat...
With the texture of that flop I just don't see the hands that are beating you leading out here, especially since you were the pre-flop aggressor.
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langaan
Old 04-22-2008, 03:40 PM     Post subject: Re: . #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJH
Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
Quote:
Originally Posted by GatorJH
Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
imo that small flop bet is his way of asking you if you got the king, id answer with a re-raise and get him to fold is AQ/QQ
If he has AQ or QQ you don't want him to fold. AQ is playing to 4 outs, QQ is playing to two.
not if he has AQh on that turn.... you now have 15 scare cards for the river
any jack, any Q, any 10 and any heart.
How are you counting these outs? If villian has exactly AhQh (which if you can put him on an exact hand you are sooo much better than I am) his outs after the turn are the 9 remaining hearts and the other 3 tens for a total of 12 outs.

Neither a (non heart )J nor a Q help villian - DUCY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by langaan
not te mention the fact that we may already be beat...
With the texture of that flop I just don't see the hands that are beating you leading out here, especially since you were the pre-flop aggressor.
"scare cards", not outs

im not saying i can put him on AQh,
im simply saying that if we put him on QQ or some type of str draw, than there are several scare cards on the river.

any 10 may complete his straight if he has AQ
heart may complete a flush
Q may give him trips if he has QQ
J may give him a boat if hes got AJ...

with the range we put him on, there are alot of scare cards is all im saying. and regardless of what he has, you can expect a large bet from him on the river, which we are committed to call even if one of those cards hits.
and again, we may already be beat, so this is why I would be finding out where I am with a re-raise on the flop.

what are you going to do if a 10/J/Q or heart hit the river and vill open shoves?

am I the only one re-raising this flop??

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Cocco_Bill
Old 04-22-2008, 03:48 PM #21 (permalink)  
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minraise flop and turn.

This looks so donkish that it will get him to felt 72 offsuit every time.
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Vrax
Old 04-22-2008, 06:06 PM #22 (permalink)  
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4bet $1.5, and do it with AK as well.

Call it down, you may be beat by Kx+ but he is blockbetting pair of Jacks often enough to look him up. He looks like a player who can't sell nuts for stack.
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