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Large swings - bankroll management?

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Waggho

02-23-2005, 06:25 PM Post subject: Large swings - bankroll management?

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 260

Recently I have been playing at the .25/.50 stakes NL tables, both on party where the buy-in is $25 and elsewhere where the buy-in is $50. My experience has been that the swings can be really huge. One day, I had won $120 when playing at noon, and before midnight that evening I had lost $90 of it. And yesterday, I had a nice upswing where I won almost $150, just to lose almost as much today. None of these ups and downs seemed to me as very special, it was not like I was having incredible luck when I was up and there were no terrible 5 bad beats in a row or exceptionally bad playing by me when I was diving. This made me think about bankroll management. If you have 20 buy-ins at party, that's $500, which I believe most of you would consider a reasonable bankroll size for a winning player to play those tables. But if you can easily swing down one fifth of your bankroll just in one day - is $500 really enough? Is it just me risking too much of my bankroll on a single occasion? That would mean no multi-tabling, and I'm bonus whoring, so not multi-tabling or going down to lower stakes is not an attractive option for me right now.

Give me some input.

/Wag
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02-23-2005, 06:28 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Check out 'Rilla's Bankroll Management 101 post in the Beginner's Circle. It's sticky so it's easy to find.

$500 is easily enough for full NL ring (13 buyins would even be enough), but if you are playing 6 max 20 buyins would be about correct in my opinion.

a500lbgorilla

02-23-2005, 09:29 PM

#3 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

Join Date: Sep 2004

Location: This room is a good place to be

Posts: 8,379

I'm begining to think that 20 buyins should be the running requirment. (I'm in one mighty downswing)

But it never hurts to play it safe.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

JeffreyGB

02-23-2005, 10:00 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Jenks, OK

Posts: 3,477

This is precisely why I've stuck to my less-than-max buy-in strategy. The swings are smaller, and I maintain that I can make almost as much this way while having to compensate for fewer losses.

Plus, while bonuswhoring, it really helps to be able to play at higher stakes (makes running through it a lot faster!).

- Jeffrey

P.S. Nice to see you posting again Wag. When did you move up to .25/.50? I just made the jump this week myself.

I run a training site...

Check out strategy videos at GrinderSchool.com, from $10 / month.

ampersandman

02-23-2005, 11:15 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Adelaide, Australia

Posts: 31

I started playing .01/02 NL and found that I was doing fine, the swings were up to a quarter of my bankroll, and at $2 buy in that was fine (5000 hands) . The same % swings at $25 NL were killing me emotionally. I didn't loose money but the effect on my game of dropping a lazy $150 of a $500 bankroll affected my aggression level when I needed it most.

I realised that I hadn't played enough hands to know if I was truly a winning player or not. So I didn't have the confidence of knowing that I was truly swinging or losing. I would seem that the bankroll strategies apply only to winning or break-even players. Possibly - there is no bankroll that a losing player could safely have without eventually going broke!

I then read a post by Fnord about working your way up through the levels and dropping back if you lose half your bankroll to a lower level. So I decided from then on that I would EARN every cent of my bankroll - bar my initial stake ($50). It's going to take me around 25,000 hands to move up a level. I also have a personal rule that my bankroll is 25 times the buy-in. I have read a lot of bankroll management articles and it seems that the 20x figure is often a minimum. Remember: I don't know yet whether I am on a lucky streak or a winning player. I won't know for another 15,000 - 20,000 hands.

Some things I like about this new approach: I get to answer all my bankroll questions for myself appropriate to my style of play - without risking too much cash. The lower levels are much more forgiving of my beginner errors. I get to experiment with different styles of play without the stress. By the time I get to the .50/$1 level I expect to have played around 100,000 hands. I will never be playing above my level without knowing it. It suits MY personality.

Drawbacks: By being so conservative I may be missing profit opportunities.

I think I am laying a strong foundation for long term success.

Just my BB worth.

--
You have to realize the NL is all about the pairs
- ilikeaces86

Waggho

02-24-2005, 08:41 AM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: Sweden

Posts: 260

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffreyGB

P.S. Nice to see you posting again Wag. When did you move up to .25/.50? I just made the jump this week myself.

Thank you! I have been in Austria for a nice snowboarding holiday. Unfortunately, I come straight back to a "I-have-not-studied-enough-for-this" cell biology exam on monday, so I think I'm not going to be too active here until after that. Actually,If I am, you're gonna have to tell me to go study instead!

Anyway, nice points of you guys. I also feel that these swings affect me too much personally (getting in a bad mood after losing $100) but I think it's something you can learn to handle with by time (with a sufficient bankroll of course).

As for moving up to .25/.50, I haven't really done that yet, it was just to clear a bonus. It was actually a play above my bankroll, as I have about $300 in it (soon $400 I hope after a cryptologic bonus is cleared - I didn't realize until I deposited that the lowest NL stakes there is .50/1 and you have to get a pin code by mail to withdraw, so instead I'm playing extremely tight 1/2 limit). I recently withdrew all my initial poker deposits from my bankroll, so that now I only play with winnings, which I think helps me handle better with downswings, that's why it's down to $300. I was hoping to bonus whore it up to $500 and then I would comfortably be able to play (and whore) party skins, but this swing thing made me realize that I might not be so comfortable after all with a $500 bankroll at those tables.

One thing at a time though, first I need to get it up to $500.

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