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camelio
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03-17-2007, 08:46 AM
Post subject: KK when an Ace flops
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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i know everything is situation dependent...
but i wanna know the general consensus of how to play the Kings when an Ace flops heads up, with 2 ppl, 3 or more....
how do you play this hand here? reperesent the A? close up shop? i know there are a lot of things effecting how you play KK here, but what are your general thoughts?
c
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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You said it, it depends. Here is a good thread about KK on an A high flop though: http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=21766 (from the SnG forum, no less).
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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that thread was a blast from the past. i dont like to go against gabe, as he is a much better player than i.
but, i dont check the flop typically when oop w/ KK and the A hits (or i have JJ+, for that matter). i like to see where i stand right away, while its still relatively cheap. sometimes i bet 3/4, sometimes i bet pot, but i always come in strong. if someone has the balls to raise me, i say, "nh, sir," and give it up. but more likely, i will get a fold, maybe a call. calls dont scare me, although i dont 2 barrell unless theres a draw and i know that villain is likely to chase draws. i just play more passively from here, as i am oop.
usually, they wont play back at you unless they have the A. more than 75% of the time, i would guess, i get a fold after my bet. but, that could just be me.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
usually, they wont play back at you unless they have the A. more than 75% of the time, i would guess, i get a fold after my bet. but, that could just be me.
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Well, that's the entire point. If they fold when they don't have the A and don't fold when they have the A, then your bet will only lose you money. Finding out where you stand is overrated, especially in these spots when you're either way ahead or way behind.
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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yes, but if i check, can i fold to a bet? no. and that costs me money, too. i would rather be the one betting, and not the one calling.
you arent trying to double up or build a monster pot with KK anyway. you are trying to make sure the pot doesnt get to the flop, or past it if it does. you get more and more vulnerable each card that hits the board with big pockets.
so, yes, i get that that is exactly the point, but i would rather find out sooner rather than later if i am beat, especially if it is going to cost me money either way.
there is no way you can check-fold an A-ragged flop just because you automatically give credit for the A.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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XTR1000
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2006
Location: surfing in a room
Posts: 2,188
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check/calling villians flop or turn bet will gain you exactly the single bet from QQ/JJ/(TT) you would have missed when u bet out. that´s the point, your not giving credit for an A in the first spot, your trying to extract as much money as possible from weaker hands.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
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yo
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Chopper
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 4,255
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but how can you keep check-calling into AX that called your silly 4X raise? especially if multi-way.
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LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.
Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
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camelio
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5
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I really appreciate the input guys... this site is sweet 
i tend to agree with chopper in that i like to take a stab at the pot just to see where i am. i usually get so out of hand as to bet the whole pot, however, since the pot is usually a decent size due to my preflop raise 
my problem is i tend to second-guess myself after being re-raised by more aggressive players (the kind who would re-raise the flop with an open-end str8 draw, gut shot, or flush draw). i'm sure that i've lost a lot of pots in just those types of scenarios, but my thing is i don't necessarilly see an easy remedy in that spot. i absolutely hate to flat call an aggressive-type player who reraises me on the flop w/an Ace for just this reason. i generally like to be the one in the driver's seat in this type of scenario if i can possibly help it, and usually (not always, 2/3rds of the time) will let go of the hand when somebody takes that from me. i'm wondering if this is a weakness in my game; if i should be more aggressive in hands like this against aggressive players? i usually go with my instincts and when i suspect somebody is trying to steal a pot away from me i will play back at them. but these types of hands (eg: QQ Flop: A 7 5) have proven to be some of the trickier situations that arises.
i feel like i should be maximizing profits and minimizing losses in hands like this, but I'm not always sure what the best method of action is. it seems that you'll win the minimum when you're ahead (ie: villain folds to my 1/2 pot bet on the flop) and lose the maximum if you misread your opponent. i already said what i'd do against an aggressive player, but what about a rock? when they call that usually means ace with a weak kicker or maybe slow-playing a set to me. but it may mean something as weak as 2nd pair, which i could beat, or lower pockets. basically i'm interested in how you guys would suggest playing in these different situations. when do you feel it's a safe fold, and when do you think a reraise (or possibly call?) is called for (no pun intended).
again i greatly appreciate your guys' thoughts. i've been playing holdem for about 5 years now (stud for much longer) and there are still scenarios that pop up where i feel like such a donkey (as i'm sure there will be for years to come lol).
c
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NLHE lahooozaher
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 916
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chopper
but how can you keep check-calling into AX that called your silly 4X raise? especially if multi-way.
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if it's multiway at lowlimits I usually c/f. HU it seems silly to bet.
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