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Waggho
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01-15-2005, 10:49 AM
Post subject: KK w A on board?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sweden
Posts: 260
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Today I got dealt KK after some guy had called, I had the button. Two people called me. The flop was J A 8 rainbow, and it was checked to me. I put in a good pot sized bet and the guys folded.
Do you think this play was correct? I think most of you would say that if no one bets, no one probably has an ace. In my experience though, at the tables I´m playing ($0.10 Big Blind), some people quite often slowplay top pair, especially if they have a low kicker (which is often the case as they play AXo all the time). If one of them smooth calls, I would be having problems with the future betting. How do you handle these hands? I often have a note on slowplayers, but you can´t be sure that there are no ones that you haven´t discovered yet.
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Haji
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sadam's Palace, Southern Baghdad (in pic)
Posts: 32
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I would definetly say you did the right thing. You represented that ace and found out no one else had it... If you were raised I would have folded. If called and the turn was checked to you again, I'd do the same thing. If you were called or raised, I would be very very cautious and probably fold unless of course you hit the set.
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Ayce
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I just had KK raised 5BB fhad two callers, flop came A82 rainbow, first player raised 5 and second player called, i dropped the KK immediately. They went to showdown and the player who called had come in with A8 suited. My thinking was that at least one them had an ace.
In your case you were first to bet, representing the A is fine, if you get action you have the chance that an A will give you free cards on the turn and river.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Yeah, piece of cake. The good side-effect is that a weak ace in the hand of a solid player might go in the muck, and you picked up a pot you shouldn't have.
KK is not nearly good enough here to give people free cards.
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BreakfastMan
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Straight
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bedford, Nova Scotia, Canada
Posts: 121
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I would have done the same. Represent the A and see what happens. If someone re-raises, then you fold. If they call, then you have a decision to make depending on the player of what you do next. Do you check or raise again?
Thanks,
BreakfastMan
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Thanks,
BreakfastMan
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dalecooper
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 3,107
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If it's checked around, the bet there isn't even repping an ace so much as it's a value bet. If you think no one has an ace, your kings are the best hand and you're betting their value. If you get called you have to think you're up against a baby ace and it's time to let it go. You'll probably get a check on the turn too - I'd check there. Unless you're willing to go in with a huge bluff, that guy who called with his weak ace on the flop isn't mucking on the turn, and he may not even fold to a huge bluff either. Of course he'll probably bet into you on the river if you check the turn, and it's up to you (and the pot odds) whether you think it's worth a call. You also need to read the board: could he be drawing to a flush or straight? If that seems likely then a continuation bet on the turn might be in order, after all.
Incidentally, I wouldn't bet the whole pot on the flop. 1/2 - 2/3 of the pot is enough to get folds from most people if they don't have an ace, and you're more likely to show a net profit from the smaller bet. If you bet half the pot you only need to win 1 time in 3 to break even. (Let's say the pot is $10 and you bet $5... if they fold you win $10, which pays for two more of those bets that are called by someone with an ace. So the less you bet here the better your expectation is for this bet. But you have to bet enough that it's believable that you have an ace, or a high pair just under the ace. If the table is loose maybe closer to 2/3 of the pot is appropriate.)
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poskid_1982
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Midwest
Posts: 392
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I like this play. I personally love KK as most players do. As long as u play Preflop properly to get the weak Aces out you'll win with this hand often enough even with an ace on the board. And you did just that. As long as you dont have a read on an opp that will showdown any ace no matter what this was a great play.
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that was a great play... i hate when KK gets crushed with an A on the flop...
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ectomorph
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 21
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You definately have to bet there, everytime. If someone calls/raises, be prepared to check it down or fold. KK is a great hand, but you don't want to be drawing to a 2 outer.. And as dalecooper said earlier a less than pot sized bet is probably best. A slightly smaller bet looks like you want a call to alot of players.
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