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DoanDiggy
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12-08-2008, 08:42 PM
Post subject: KK vs short stack on drawish undercard board
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($2.52)
BB ($2.70)
UTG ($1.95)
Hero (UTG+1) ($5.15)
MP1 ($0.49)
MP2 ($2.88)
CO ($3.42)
Button ($3.05)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K , K
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08, 5 folds
Flop: ($0.19) 8 , J, 10 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20
Turn: ($0.59) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.21
Is this generally correct play, or should I have just put him all-in on the flop? Or maybe like .15 on the flop and .26 into .49 on the turn is better? As played, an A-high flush draw, especially if it's paired (AcJ, AcT, Ac8), has great odds (4:1 with 30% equity) to call on the turn (Ac9 has 40%). Then again, his whole range doesn't have odds to call the turn when he might think he does (e.g. KxQc, QcT, etc. is under 20%), so this can't be all bad. Also, I couldn't really plan for this specific turn card, so I liked betting at least pot on the flop.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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he's way too short stacked to even consider shutting down on that turn card imo. the few times he shows up with top pair makes up for this
and we have the king of clubs
nh
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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You fold, I smack you....
you got the money in, and still have a FD to the 2nd nuts. nh
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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Oh, I would never fold this hand. I was just wondering if I should have bet any differently.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Dude only had .49 to start with... not many other ways you coulda bet it....
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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.20 on the flop and .21 on the turn is strange. Bet at leat .60 on this flop, if not $1.
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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He only has .41 left. My plan was to pot the flop and put the rest in on any turn. So I should have just put him in on the flop?
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Ah. Then .60 will do it. Get him all in.
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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I'm not posting this because I got bad beat or coolered or anything. I just tend to never overbet the pot, and I'm wondering if maybe this would have been a good spot to do it. As played, it worked out exactly the way I wanted when he called both bets with AcT, and the river wasn't an A or club. I just didn't want to be results-oriented.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
Ah. Then .60 will do it. Get him all in.
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Um... the eff stack is .49. Pot the flop, get him in on the turn. IMO only thing open shoving the flop does is fold out a chunk of what you beat. But there ain't .60 to be had anywhere in this hand....
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Whether it's a bad beat or not doesn't matter, but it's nice to see people posting hands they won and are still interesting in analyzing.
Stack size is important here. You're opponent is pot comminted after the flop, so meh...get him AI on the turn and don't drag the hand out. There's no way he's not calling, and there's no way you're laying down for .41.
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kb coolman
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 596
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sarbox68
there ain't .60 to be had anywhere in this hand....
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doh...I'm dense. Though he had .41 post flop. My bad.
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sarbox68
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: wondering where the 3 extra chairs at my 6max table came from
Posts: 871
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kb coolman
There's no way he's not calling, and there's no way you're laying down for .41.
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I'm either missing something or especially dense... but WTF is this .41 on the turn??? Dude only had .49 to start with.....
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I tend to put in 1/3 of his stack on the flop and 2/3 on the turn
it has the best chance of getting called
so 14c on the flop, the rest on the turn
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DoanDiggy
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 536
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by iopq
I tend to put in 1/3 of his stack on the flop and 2/3 on the turn
it has the best chance of getting called
so 14c on the flop, the rest on the turn
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I like that approach, and that is what I would usually do, but this board hit his range so well that I felt like anyone that called .14 on the turn would also call .20, especially at these stakes. I also thought that with so many draws on the board, betting .14 at a pot of .19 is giving a lot of his holdings good drawing odds. In this instance, however, your approach would have worked a lot better. Betting .27 into .47 on this particular turn seems a lot more sensible than .21 into .59.
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I mean it doesn't really matter, but pot sized bet on the flop is a lot more convincing than a "standard" 2/3 cbet
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mieczkowusc
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Lurking in BC or IRC
Posts: 225
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There really isn't much to work with when the villain has .49 preflop.
No fold, no way.
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