Originally Posted by Roller

If you soft play them then you have the decision that you have.
You have no idea where you you stand on the river, IMO.

On the Flop I would have bet to take it down right there.
Either way at that point you would know where you stand in relation to his hand.

In your current position on the River:
If your read is accurate (loose with ATC) and your on the river.
Trust your read and Push All in.
or
Half trust your read and Call.
or
Don't trust your read and Fold.

I would not get myself in this position and I would suggest playing more aggressive Early on.
Then you have a better chance of knowing where you stand and can take full advantage of the situation.


Good Luck.

Originally Posted by iopq

you're never good on the river
the only thing you beat is three pair so decide if he's retarded enough to bet three pair

Originally Posted by Roller

If you soft play them then you have the decision that you have.

Originally Posted by Extremophile

I didn't want to scare him on the flop. I think turn bet is fine too.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Very pollite, hardly profitable

Originally Posted by Extremophile

I guess I am retarded enough by thinking that the villian might have 3-pair.



I wanted to slow play by not betting 2/3 the pot on the flop because I wanted to seem like I have air; I didn't want to scare him on the flop. I think turn bet is fine too.

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Think again Roller.

You have a pretty clear idea where you at: (Lacking a read on his river donk leads being retarded bluffs/blocks) You´re beat >90%, ez fold. Just because you´re staring at two K´s like a deer in your headlights it´s not like folding top pair here is anywhere near a "tough fold", and Im sure KK = 97 on this river.

Regarding the flop we do not want to take it down right there, as we have the best hand a lot and more importantly can expect this player to put in more money with a range weaker than our hand. We´re not betting to take it down (b/c we´re scared to have the beautiful KK sucked out on), our intention is to maximize our value. In this case it´s getting the most money we can from a weaker range and vs this described villain we can go for two streets of value on most turn cards.

I agree on betting harder on flop due to the board being so wet (and o/c the opponent being stationy) BUT PLEASE DONT MAKE BETTING DECISIONS "TO SEE WHERE YOU´RE AT"! You´re accomplishing nothing and oftentimes a bet "for info" opposes the correct path of actions. Not in this case, but please please please erase the idea of betting or raising for info from your mind, practice hand reading instead and study the concept of bluffing and valuebetting.

Originally Posted by Roller

But to suggests a method or a certain style of play that works for you is the all mighty and all others are incorrect is both incorrect and disrespectful to others as well as the game of Holdem.
.

Originally Posted by daven

are you stoopid?

Originally Posted by XTR1000

Roller:

I apologies if my responce came across as unrespectful.

I disagreed with your opinion, because it´s lacking the logic and method to analyze a hand the correct way. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as a cosmic read or a process of soul reading involved in the game of poker (and its not very helpful to suggest "trust your read"). The only "reads" you can ever have, are adressing your opponents betting paterns and ranges associated with those.

I see a lot of people going for the ultimate read and the ultimate soulpwnage. When you take the game seriously, you will sooner or later realize, that the incredible (thin and low proablitiy) reads we develop on certain opponents in certain situation are in most cases nothing but a stretch of good variance in our favour.

When you say "Id rather play the flop hard, to end the hand there" you clearly do not understand what this game is about. Playing a hand hard "to end it right there" is usually referred to as "bluffing", ie maximizing your equity by capitalizing on opponents tendencies to make incorrect folds. When our opponent does not fulfill this criterion (as the villian in OP) we are better off, betting better hands for value as long as we can expect a weaker hand (with less equity than ours) to put more money in, b/c on average these bets will make us money. We dont care, if he could draw out on us as long as we are making him pay a price too expensive to justify his call.

Now take the board of 765r and a villian who´s taking a flop with a lot of holdings. Im actually too lazy to make up ranges, lets just say for the sake of it that theres quiet a bunch of possible holdings weaker than our hand. Size your bet to maximize your value (and deny pot odds for 78ish hands).

To make a long rambling short: The advice to "take it down right there" is off. "Trust your read and shove AI" is simply wrong (particularly since OP didnt provide any read on villians river action, but was rather asking the fold or call question).