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texa8
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03-03-2009, 04:38 AM
Post subject: KK out of position to cold calls.. slow down? speed up?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 207
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Villian is running 38/14/.8 over 21 hands..
i discounted the backdoor flush, instead i had him on a stronger top pair or hearts draw by the call on this flop. what do you think?
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
Hero (SB) ($20.17)
BB ($4.85)
UTG+1 ($9.70)
MP2 ($11.08)
MP3 ($11.38)
CO ($8.68)
Button ($12.87)
Preflop: Hero is SB with K , K
2 folds, MP3 bets $0.30, 2 folds, Hero raises to $1.20, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.90
Flop: ($2.50) 2, J , 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.40, MP3 calls $1.40
Turn: ($5.30) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP3 calls $3
River: ($11.30) 5 (2 players)
Hero bets $11.30, MP3 calls $5.78 (All-In)
Total pot: $22.86 | Rake: $1.52
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animal_chin
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: On the grind slavin' daily.
Posts: 180
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I feel this is super standard. With no reraises anywhere it would be hard to put him on a better hand than you have. Sometimes when I'm way ahead / way behind like I would be here if villain had a JX / set I check to see what the villain does on the turn, but that is probably too cautious versus most people, unless they are super nitty.
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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apart from the fact you need to bet the turn a little harder this is perfect.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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pot flop / shove turn
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sil693
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 609
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by al yell
pot flop / shove turn
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i dont think you have to pot the flop here, and even if you did shoving the turn is still an unnecessary overbet imo.
if he is on a draw, lets make him chase it incorrectly rather than blowing him off it. if he has some Jx / QQ then we can probably get 3 streets of value vs this loose player.
This hand is standard. nice hand.
edit - i would probably bet both flop + especially turn a bit bigger.
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oskar
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: in ur accounts... confiscating ur funz
Posts: 2,452
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by al yell
pot flop / shove turn
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These kinds of posts are starting to piss me off. If you have to post bad advice, at least give some reasons. That way hopefully at least you will learn something.
Potting the flop is lowering his calling range. Since villain is relatively short you don't have bet big to get it all-in by the river. 88-TT and Jx are a bigger part of his range than a heart draw.
Flop bet could be bigger, but mostly because you wouldn't make it that small as a c-bet bluff. At least I hope not. But it's not bad. You're still representing a wide range, but you'll probably get floated less with air and small pairs trying to catch a bluff by somewhat thinking opponents.
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CBAT
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 831
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Looks standard to me.
I can't see where your making any mistakes. Maybe bump it up to 3.50 on the turn.
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al yell
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 515
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by oskar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by al yell
pot flop / shove turn
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These kinds of posts are starting to piss me off. |
rightly so. I omitted the essential '?' so as to indicate that it was a line i was simply contemplating and not necessarily advocating. Thanks to your explanation (and that of the other posters) I see the problem in a new light and thank you.
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super duper standard
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St8ofN8
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 60
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CBAT
Looks standard to me.
I can't see where your making any mistakes. Maybe bump it up to 3.50 on the turn.
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This.
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texa8
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Straight
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 207
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cheers guys, thought that was the case but I posted it as I was tilting after he showed JTdd lol.. just wanted to know if anyone saw that coming either.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by texa8
cheers guys, thought that was the case but I posted it as I was tilting after he showed JTdd lol.. just wanted to know if anyone saw that coming either.
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Just a gross bad beat. Make sure you get a note on the guy though that he's calling top pair garbage kicker to the river. Makes betting 3-streets for value oop alot easier if you remember what these players call down with.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by texa8
cheers guys, thought that was the case but I posted it as I was tilting after he showed JTdd lol.. just wanted to know if anyone saw that coming either.
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you put the money in good since you were already pot commited on the turn
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,545
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you both played it fine
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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It's just unlucky that's all. I thought you did a good job, just build up the pot is what you got to worry about, no point wasting kings but it's good that you're not results oriented.
I just got done with a poker session with my girlfriend. I shoved 33 on the button with 6 BB on my SnG and lost. She thought I was the worst player ever.
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RoyalProdigy
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Straight
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 178
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I think you played it fine i probably would have bet more on the flop and turn but not much more on either street and either way he would have called imo so.....take the suckout and move on. it sucks i know but like everyone else said its pretty standard
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Stack That Arab Money!!!
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Oh man that's an unlucky board for your K's. That's exactly how I would have played that hand. At the river, I think it's pretty clear that the villain didn't hit a flush draw if he was on it, and on the flop and turn you were betting good amounts so he wasn't drawing cheap. I would have doubted that he was on a straight draw.
Only thing I might have done differently is maybe bet a little higher on the turn? Maybe 80% of the pot? I'm not sure if that would be the proper play, but in that situation, I feel like that's what I would have done out of my gut feeling.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Kijjo
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 554
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find the seat next to this guy at every table he plays for the next week (if his bankroll lasts that long).
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Donk Skills:
#1 The bluff call
#2 The Drawing-Dead Value Bet
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kijjo
find the seat next to this guy at every table he plays for the next week (if his bankroll lasts that long).
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Are you talking about me?
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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Danh Bai
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 166
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What's so wrong with the opp calling a street with top pair to what could just be a c-bet with missed AK/AQ or an underpair? Then he hits another diamond giving him top pair and a flush draw - a very strong hand. So even if he puts you on a big over pair now, he knows he's got your whole stack if he hits his flush, or a T and maybe even a J. So what's so bad about his play?
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