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KK maniac pushes?

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HarleyGuy13

12-07-2008, 04:26 PM Post subject: KK maniac pushes?

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

FTR Hand History Converter Output (intended for copying and pasting into poker forums!):

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (Button) ($4)
SB ($11.75)
BB ($2)
UTG ($10.60)
UTG+1 ($3.20)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($2.40)
MP3 ($1.75)
CO ($6.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, K

4 folds, MP3 calls $0.10, CO raises to $0.40, Hero raises to $1, 3 folds, CO calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.25) 7

, 3

, 9

(2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $1.20, CO raises to $5.10 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.65
??

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badgers

12-07-2008, 04:55 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

easy call

3k post - Return of the blog!

daven

12-07-2008, 06:13 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Aug 2007

Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up

Posts: 5,805

describe villain.
Describe the range of hands he could have here.
Then call.

don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

please read: http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/

ZwiFT

12-07-2008, 06:32 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2007

Location: Valuebet/fold

Posts: 778

Quote:

Originally Posted by daven

describe villain.
Describe the range of hands he could have here.
Then call.

I think you are going way over your head here, he described villan as a maniac and there is nothing else you need to know. This is a huge +ev snap call.

Most of the time villan will 4bet aces.
Most of the time villan will fold 33, 77 and 79 pre

He is getting it in so sicko liite, its a huge cooler if he has the effective nuts

Monsieur_chat

12-07-2008, 07:35 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Dec 2008

Location: London

Posts: 254

Call. Might be a nasty cooler but I wouldn't want to get into the habit of folding this.

badgers

12-07-2008, 10:42 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Spewing

Posts: 3,372

guys this is even more of a call than you're making out.

We have KINGS.
3bet pot.
against a maniac.
60 BBs.

Even considering folding is a MASSIVE ERROR.

3k post - Return of the blog!

dranger7070

12-08-2008, 12:09 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2008

Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy

Posts: 2,524

dranger7070 has a little shameless behaviour in the past

I agree with badgers last post. If the guy REALLY is a MANIAC he can have any number of things. Im thinking probly a pair somewhere 1010-QQ but that might be giving him TOO much credit. Theres no way you fold this EVER.

kb coolman

12-08-2008, 02:12 AM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgers

We have KINGS.
60 BBs.
Even considering folding is a MASSIVE ERROR.

THIS

Which brings up my question...WHY ARE YOU A SHORTY?? Always always always buy in with 100BB, and always always always reload if you drop below 90BB. Playing a ton of shorties like this table with a full stack gives you a HUGE advantage.

badgers

12-08-2008, 02:25 AM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 3,372

oh good god i didnt even notice heros stack size making it an even easier call

3k post - Return of the blog!

AFchung

12-08-2008, 03:14 AM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2008

Location: UCLA

Posts: 1,179

i'd call even for 150 BB's deep -_-

snap fist pump call. minimize window and play some other tables to get your mind off your +EV high variance decision

http://afchung.blogspot.com/

swiggidy

12-08-2008, 03:33 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Waiting in the shadows ...

Posts: 3,777

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Always always always buy in with 100BB, and always always always reload if you drop below 90BB.

I don't agree with this.

1) nothing in poker is ALWAYS
2) you're saying this because that is what you have heard from others

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Playing a ton of shorties like this table with a full stack gives you a HUGE advantage.

No it doesn't, it doesn't change anything at all.

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

kb coolman

12-08-2008, 04:02 AM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

1) nothing in poker is ALWAYS.

I agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

2) you're saying this because that is what you have heard from others

Yes, and I've found that it's very reliable. About 95% of my game is stuff I've heard from others on this site. I stick with what works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Playing a ton of shorties like this table with a full stack gives you a HUGE advantage.

No it doesn't, it doesn't change anything at all.

Explain? My experience is that it's EXTREMELY easy to get these guys to go AI with mid pair, because they somehow think they're limiting their risk with the short stack. They lose, reload, and repeat.

kmind

12-08-2008, 04:14 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

kb - you say "I stick with what works". You should change it to "I stick with what works for me." It may work for you and a majority of others but still some are more +EV with a different style. Trust me, I play full stacked always so that works best for us but we can't say it does for everyone. That said, I do agree that people should start out using the 100bb strat until they experiment with other ways.

And also the concept of having a full stack when effective stacks were lower than yours to begin with doesn't make sense.

kb coolman

12-08-2008, 04:27 AM

#14 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

I hear ya, kmind. I also realize that I'm offering advice at the stakes I play, as does the OP. I know there is a lot more strategy regarding stack sizes, but I've always thought about that in relation to playing deep, or in tourneys where stack sizes are vastly different. I'd like to know what the advantages are in playing short, 'cause I sure don't see any at the small stakes. I've heard the argument from others about how it limits their risk on the suckouts, but you also minimize your gains when you have the nuts on a multiway pot. Plus, at the small stakes, it's like I stated in my previous post. The shorties reload A LOT.

In regards to effective stack, there are 6 shorties at this table, including the hero. With two other opps at 100BB+, my immediate thought is that he needs to reload.

But here's my real concern with playing short...How to you bluff effectively? You have no hammer!

donkbee

12-08-2008, 05:09 AM

#15 (permalink)

WELP

Join Date: May 2005

Location: so close but so far

Posts: 3,604

Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Always always always buy in with 100BB, and always always always reload if you drop below 90BB.

I don't agree with this.

1) nothing in poker is ALWAYS
2) you're saying this because that is what you have heard from others

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb coolman

Playing a ton of shorties like this table with a full stack gives you a HUGE advantage.

No it doesn't, it doesn't change anything at all.

nice replies by swigg here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.

12-08-2008, 05:30 AM

#16 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Buying in with 60BB is so that you can shove with big overpairs and TPTK and always show a profit

it makes it a lot easier
if you have 100BB sometimes you should fold that AK on a A83 rainbow board to lots of action
if you have 60BB after lots of action you're all in anyway

kb coolman

12-08-2008, 02:56 PM

#17 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 596

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Buying in with 60BB is so that you can shove with big overpairs and TPTK and always show a profit

This is where I'm a noob, and I really need to understand this. Here's my basic question: If it's not right playing the hand full stack ('cause you're gonna lose), how's it right to play it short stack ('cause you're still gonna lose).

So I'll take a shot at answering my own question. It's all about the shove, right? Since I'm a shorty, I can shove every time with overs, and the full stacks will call my shove since it is a smaller risk to their stack, and leaves no worry of bigger calls on later streets. If I can get one or two callers with every shove, I'm +EV.

Am I close?

If so, I just don't see this happening at the $10NL tables. I'm sure it has a lot to do with the skillset/mindset of the low stakes shorty vs higher stakes where I would expect more skill. But I just came off a 15 minute session 4-tabling, and about 40% were playing with $2.50 or less. I was up over a BI in that 15 minutes, and I all came from these shorties. And it's like that almost every time I play against these type of players. The money is quick and easy.

kettleofish

12-08-2008, 03:09 PM

#18 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Helllllo Richard

Posts: 333

Think about stack sizes in relation to pot size. If you buyin for 50BBs, 3 bet to 12BB PF, then whatever the flop is you would almost always be getting decent odds to stack off with TPTK or an overpair, however you choose to do so (b/c, c/r, c/c shove turn etc). Not to mention the fact that villains will generally stack off lighter against ppl that arent fully stacked.

There's only one system. Bet. Lose. Borrow. Steal. Lose. Take the drugs. Lose. Prison. Death.

HarleyGuy13

12-08-2008, 07:53 PM

#19 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Sep 2008

Location: Oregon

Posts: 1,226

Great conversation. What I like about FTR so much.

"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it

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