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KK facing river donkbet.

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Illfavor

02-15-2009, 05:08 AM Post subject: KK facing river donkbet.

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jun 2008

Location: Denton, TX

Posts: 1,152

Hand 3, and he had limped hands 1 and 2.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($24.75)
BB ($25)
Hero (UTG) ($32.50)
UTG+1 ($25.60)
MP1 ($3.50)
MP2 ($30.05)
MP3 ($9.95)
CO ($8.95)
Button ($24.15)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K

, K

Hero raises to $1, 6 folds, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold

Flop: ($2.25) 7

, 3

, 9

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.50, SB calls $1.50

Turn: ($5.25) J

(2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3.50, SB calls $3.50

River: ($12.25) 2

(2 players)
SB bets $8, Hero pauses.

Total pot: $12.25 | Rake: $0.60

I didn't do a good job of analyzing his range mid-hand, but I did plan the hand out on the flop so that made me happy. Thoughts?

Ich grolle nicht...

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bigspenda73

02-15-2009, 05:33 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

what was your plan?

Illfavor

02-15-2009, 05:37 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

what was your plan?

I was kinda torn b/c I didn't want to play a giant pot, but I also wanted to get great value. I wanted to go 3/4ths pot on flop/turn (assuming he checked to me) and around 1/2 pot on the river if it was a safe card.

Ich grolle nicht...

dev

02-15-2009, 05:47 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Location: swonging and swonging

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I think If it was me, my plan would be to get as much money in the pot as possible, so bigger bets on the flop and turn to set up the rest on the river.

When you say he limped the first two, that means he limped UTG then just check in the BB?

Without info I think I build a much bigger pot then call here... and then regret it later. Folding is the way to go as played.

We're repping strong, he's repping stronger, and niether of us has any reason to believe that the other is anything other than what they're repping.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

Illfavor

02-15-2009, 05:56 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

When you say he limped the first two, that means he limped UTG then just check in the BB?

Without info I think I build a much bigger pot then call here... and then regret it later. Folding is the way to go as played.

We're repping strong, he's repping stronger, and niether of us has any reason to believe that the other is anything other than what they're repping.

Yea I meant he had seen both flops.

I think a larger slightly larger flop bet and a larger bet on the turn would be fine. Why would you regret the call later?

Ich grolle nicht...

dev

02-15-2009, 07:06 AM

#6 (permalink)

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Because I think all we beat is weirdly played jacks and a seriously unlikely 86. We get beat by everything else.

What do we beat that makes that bet? It's too big to be a blocking bet, so either its a bluff or we're beat. What calls the flop and turn other than a flush draw? I think the flushes make up most of V's range, and he'd want to bet them for value on the river, so yeah, a fold is in order.

Check out my self-deprecation here!

02-15-2009, 09:41 AM

#7 (permalink)

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Posts: n/a

we beat QQ
but it doesn't seem like he's going to have anything but a flush draw or straight draw
he doesn't seem like the kind of player who would go "oh crap better get that thin value from QQ before someone checks a jack back"

oskar

02-15-2009, 10:17 AM

#8 (permalink)

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I don't like the bet sizing at all. Closer to pot on the flop, and closer to pot on the turn, and he'll have less than a pot size left on the river...
What's the idea behind those bets?

As for the river spot... I'm pretty clueless. Especially if villain is unknown.

The strengh of a hero is defined by the weakness of his villains.

02-15-2009, 11:54 AM

#9 (permalink)

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if we pot every street, we can call a river shove and still be EV+ over the long run since he's not making his flush every time on the river
although folding here would be exploiting passive opponents

mediumhand

02-15-2009, 01:11 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 27

snap against a fish.

oskar

02-15-2009, 02:05 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mediumhand

snap against a fish.

25NL fish don't bluff. There are plenty of people I play regularly with against whom I would snap-fold this.
Call seems pretty bad though. If you think you're ahead of his range - meaning that he's betting enough worse hands for value there because it doesn't make a lot of sense as a bluff - you should raise.
You're not folding out his weaker value range there, I don't think.

mediumhand

02-15-2009, 02:34 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 27

oskar:
nl25 fish dont bluff flushes ? hope your joking.

02-15-2009, 02:52 PM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mediumhand

oskar:
nl25 fish dont bluff flushes ? hope your joking.

Not all of them do

mediumhand

02-15-2009, 02:59 PM

#14 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 27

iopq:
and ?
not all will donk flush when they make it too, so ?
theres ton of hands i saw doing this that kk beat.......this hand has no reads so talking is pointless... easy snap for me agaisnt fish cos their ranges are full of crap...if u fold thats okay too...

Illfavor

02-15-2009, 03:07 PM

#15 (permalink)

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I feel their "large bet on river" leading range is strongly weighted towards made hands > one pair.

Hero folded, thanks for the feedback.

Ich grolle nicht...

xX zorrito Xx

02-15-2009, 04:41 PM

#16 (permalink)

Flush

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Send a message via Yahoo to xX zorrito Xx

insta-muck... with no hesitation... it happens to me too...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($4.70)
CO ($15.80)
Hero (Button) ($6.45)
SB ($11.05)
BB ($8.60)
UTG ($2.25)
MP1 ($5.10)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7

, 7

UTG calls $0.10, 2 folds, CO calls $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.50) 9

, 2

, 7

(5 players)
SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, BB calls $0.90, 1 fold

Turn: ($2.70) A

(2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2, BB calls $2

River: ($6.70) 3

(2 players)
BB bets $2.90, Hero folds

Total pot: $6.70 | Rake: $0.30

Results:
BB had A

, 8

(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: BB won $6.40

fold when you know you're beat...

loonychune

02-15-2009, 05:09 PM

#17 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 145

I think in that last hand you're entitled to bet pot on the turn and and then probably have to call the river. It's all good and well saying you're beat and then feeling better about folding when villain shows, but what about all the times he's got A9, A7, set of 2s, 97 even........?

2ndline.4thstreet

02-15-2009, 05:20 PM

#18 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2009

Posts: 120

Yeah man, gotta let it go in this situation. Its too bad, but when you're beat, you're beat.

xX zorrito Xx

02-15-2009, 06:19 PM

#19 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Wellington, FL

Posts: 300

Quote:

Originally Posted by loonychune

villain would've check raised or led out in turn with given range... i honestly couldn't put him in anything else other than a flush

Vrax

02-15-2009, 11:36 PM

#20 (permalink)

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Well played flop and turn in both hands, but I'd raise that 77 pre because it has a lot of value on BTN unimproved vs shitty opponents.

River - against passives I'd muck kings and call 777's, vs spewtards I'd call both but strategically it doesn't matter that much what you do there, those are soo marginal, breakevenish spots. If you showdown those kings and see two spades, don't feel bad about it.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Fnord

02-16-2009, 12:10 AM

#21 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

I'd call the KK (but don't hate a fold too much depending on game texture) and fold the 77 because of the number of players who saw the flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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TFTR

02-16-2009, 01:04 AM

#22 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2008

Posts: 6

I think you would make a big bet after the flop.
With two spades on table, there is a possibility to your rival to make a flush.
If he paid your big bet, your could push all in after the turn.

RoyalProdigy

02-16-2009, 04:39 AM

#23 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jan 2009

Location: Massachusetts

Posts: 178

well it was a god fold on the river.....but i dont like your flop bet or turn bet. I mean its like you said come on draw to your flush........If your gonna bet like that on the flop (if you think he is on the draw) and let him see the turn and you get to see it as well and it does not complete his flush, nail the turn (poy size bet) because his odds are squat to hit his flush on the river, if he calls on the draw hes going to miss 80% of the time, if he folds you win. You have to protect big hands like this. You said you didnt want to build a big pot......WHY THE HELL NOT! i mean you have KK its not like your sitting on Jacks or some dumb hand you have the second best starting hand in NLHE. I do like your fold on the river. He was trying to get value on his flush. Anyways gl to you in the future.

Stack That Arab Money!!!

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