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KK facing 3bet on bland flop

  
 
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kb coolman
Old 02-04-2009, 09:10 PM     Post subject: KK facing 3bet on bland flop #1 (permalink)  
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Villain stats are scarce with only 7 hands. 71/0. I have one note after 4 hands saying he called down with over cards. I'm not folding KK here, but what's the best line against this guy? His aggression tells me he may have hit a set, since I've only seen him call up to this point. Should I 3bet? What do I do if he 4bets? Is a shove incorrect here?

$0.1/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($31.78)
UTG+1 ($40.10)
HERO ($24.65)
CO ($29.05)
BTN ($20.20)
SB ($25.85)
BB ($0.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.35, 7 players)
HERO is dealt
2 folds, HERO raises to $1, CO calls $1, BTN calls $1, 2 folds

Flop: ($3.35, 3 players)
HERO bets $2.50, CO folds, BTN raises to $5, HERO ???
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AFchung
Old 02-04-2009, 09:37 PM #2 (permalink)  
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i'd get it in on the flop with this guy. Tx is definitely in his range, and i usually pay off sets to overpairs anyways
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bigspenda73
Old 02-04-2009, 09:39 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 The first thing I'd like to bring up is this is not a 3bet.

You bet, he raised, it's a 2-bet, or a raise, but it's not a 3bet. PF a 3bet occurs because the BB is already thought of as the first bet.

A for the hand this is not an easy spot. On a more draw-heavy board 3betting or calling the flop and getting it in on a safe turn are good options. On a board like this we're facing a pretty strong flop raising range of something like 22,99,TT,9To,9Ts,ATo,ATs,QJs,QJo. We fair decently against this range HOWEVER that is if that's the range he would continue with against a raise.

So the best way to continue would be to manipulate him in a way which forces the bottom end of his range to continue in the hand.
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:24 PM #4 (permalink)  
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He's asking whether HE should 3b so his terminology is correct since he bet, his opponent raised and he would be the one 3bing.
First of all, don't fold.

We have a few options:
flat/donk turn if straight draw misses if his range is a lot of draws and he doesn't know how to use the slider
flat/check turn which is kind of meh because his Tx might check behind
this line only makes sense if he's only doing this with the nuts, but we have out
3b/call makes sense if he would shove Tx here because we don't like overcards that might scare him
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poker_pup
Old 02-05-2009, 01:11 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Judging by the betting pattern, you're beat. Why stick around? Fold.

The ONLY time I get paid off with a set is when someone has pocket K or A.
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HarleyGuy13
Old 02-05-2009, 01:46 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by poker_pup
Judging by the betting pattern, you're beat. Why stick around? Fold.

The ONLY time I get paid off with a set is when someone has pocket K or A.
I'm not any good w/ranges so if I use bigspenda's range we're still 66.913% to his 33.087%!

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.913% 66.44% 00.48% 69061 495.00 { KcKh }
Hand 1: 33.087% 32.61% 00.48% 33899 495.00 { 99+, 22, ATs+, QJs, T9s, ATo+, QJo, T9o

so why would we/you be folding? I think we/you make a huge mistake to base our action on his betting pattern when we only have 7 hands with villian.
I don't ask for any other reason than it's not making any sense to me. Isn't the real question given the odds how do we proceed, not do we fold?
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bjsaust
Old 02-05-2009, 01:52 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quick terminology thing, this is a raise not a 3-bet. You bet (1), he raises (2), if you reraise (3) its a 3-bet. PF the blinds count as the first bet.
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bjsaust
Old 02-05-2009, 02:12 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
He's asking whether HE should 3b so his terminology is correct since he bet, his opponent raised and he would be the one 3bing.
Oops, you're right. In that case, different terminology point: "facing a 3-bet" means that someone has 3-bet you and you're faced with a decision.
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kb coolman
Old 02-05-2009, 02:15 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by iopq
He's asking whether HE should 3b so his terminology is correct since he bet, his opponent raised and he would be the one 3bing.
Oops, you're right. In that case, different terminology point: "facing a 3-bet" means that someone has 3-bet you and you're faced with a decision.
Yeah, my title could be a little clearer. But it turns out you guys were smart enough to figure it out.
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poker_pup
Old 02-05-2009, 03:23 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
poker_pup wrote:
Judging by the betting pattern, you're beat. Why stick around? Fold.

The ONLY time I get paid off with a set is when someone has pocket K or A.


I'm not any good w/ranges so if I use bigspenda's range we're still 66.913% to his 33.087%!

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 66.913% 66.44% 00.48% 69061 495.00 { KcKh }
Hand 1: 33.087% 32.61% 00.48% 33899 495.00 { 99+, 22, ATs+, QJs, T9s, ATo+, QJo, T9o

so why would we/you be folding? I think we/you make a huge mistake to base our action on his betting pattern when we only have 7 hands with villian.
I don't ask for any other reason than it's not making any sense to me. Isn't the real question given the odds how do we proceed, not do we fold?
I'm not any good with ranges either. All of those hands may be in his range, but which of those hands would he raise with?

Seriously, the villian is playing just like I would if I hit a set.
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DoanDiggy
Old 02-05-2009, 03:25 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
On a board like this we're facing a pretty strong flop raising range of something like 22,99,TT,9To,9Ts,ATo,ATs,QJs,QJo. We fair decently against this range HOWEVER that is if that's the range he would continue with against a raise.
I think we can also include 87o, 87s, J8o, J8s, T2s, 92s, JJ, and maybe QQ. Adding in these leaves us in even better shape and makes this seem like a situation where the best course of action is to get it in now. I don't see the open-ender (especially QJ) folding here very often, and surely any Tx or overpair isn't folding either. We have about 6 outs to a 2 pair hand and we are blocking 8 of QJ's 14 perceived outs.
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