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KK 200bb deep

  
 
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rpm
Old 02-02-2010, 03:57 AM     Post subject: KK 200bb deep #1 (permalink)  
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 villain is 9/9 TAG with a 15.4% 3bet but only over 60 hands. my plan was to 3b/fold preflop because i couldnt see him shipping anything but aces. while i understand that this doesn't mean he necessarily DOES shoves aces, i somehow convinced myself on the flop that he smooths with QQ+ and has to stack off with all of it given the flop texture and bloated pot. (i combo of KK i chop with, 6 each of QQ and AA). two questions:

is 3bet/folding>smoothing OOP pre?
can i ever not get in on this flop?

i honestly feel like i could not have dodged losing a stack here. but that said, i was very confident in losing my stack when we got it in on the flop. thoughts?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($9.93)
SB ($10)
BB ($13.42)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($4.50)
Hero (MP1) ($9.97)
MP2 ($3.50)
CO ($2.74)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
2 folds, Hero bets $0.20, 2 folds, Button raises to $1.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $3.40, Button calls $2.20

Flop: ($6.87) 10, 9, 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $4.55, Button raises to $6.53 (All-In), Hero calls $1.98

Turn: ($19.93) A (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($19.93) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $19.93 | Rake: $0.95
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rpm
Old 02-02-2010, 04:01 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 WOW beacuse we were so deep i did not notice how unusually large his 3b was. now i feel worse about it
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!Luck
Old 02-02-2010, 05:09 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 He flips AK. Deal with it. But really i tend to notice poeple who do big 3 bets are scared and don't have aa. And does he really have TT or 99 here? I doubt it.
Just to be feaking im going to guess he had ACKS
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spoonitnow
Old 02-02-2010, 05:13 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Calling pre-flop is okay. Stacking off is probably fine too. Once you 4-bet and get to this flop you have to get it in.
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Micro2Macro
Old 02-02-2010, 05:21 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 I think I prefer calling preflop here. As played I wouldn't bet so large on the flop. Give him a chance to spazz out over your cbet.
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daviddem
Old 02-02-2010, 09:50 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 I would also be very suspicious of his 3-bet sizing. Why would he do that with AA???

Can you guys please explain why it is OK to flat villain's 3-bet preflop OOP? I thought doing that was generally bad, why is it OK here?

Let me try: we 4-bet either
- for value (worse hands call). This is doubtful.
- as a "bluff" (better hands fold). No way.

But there is no way we fold KK. So that only leaves calling.

Is this correct thinking?
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Donachello
Old 02-02-2010, 02:59 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 What hands are going to 3bet but call a 4bet here? AK, JJ, QQ, maaaaaaaaaaaaybe TT cause this is 5NL. AA or KK is shoving preflop I think. On this flop you're still ahead of almost his entire range. Also flatting the 3bet preflop widens his range making you ahead of even more hands. I think the 4bet is better though just because you are OOP. On this flop you're getting it in no matter what.
[00:29] <daven> dc, why not check turn behind
[00:30] <DC> daven
[00:30] <DC> on my hand?
[00:30] <daven> yep
[00:30] <DC> because I am drunk
[00:30] <daven> nice reason
[00:30] <daven> no further questions
[00:30] <yaawn> ^^Lol

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!Luck
Old 02-02-2010, 03:04 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 Also the better question is, what if the board comes A high, do you still shove?
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Micro2Macro
Old 02-02-2010, 05:43 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daviddem
Can you guys please explain why it is OK to flat villain's 3-bet preflop OOP? I thought doing that was generally bad, why is it OK here?
It's okay to flat KK when he won't get in anything but KK+ or whatever. Flatting 3bets OOP is IN GENERAL not a great stategy but this refers to marginal hands in particular where you are likely playing hit-to-win (i.e. small pairs, SC's, weak broadways). We have a pretty strong hand here though that can continue on a very high % of flops which makes flatting okay, and probably preferable in this situation.
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