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trump

03-13-2008, 03:50 AM Post subject: KK

#1 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

I have no idea how to play cards like these. I lose and lose and lose with big starting hands.

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Absolute-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($13.80)
UTG+1 ($20.22)
MP1 ($8.90)
MP2 ($10.40)
MP3 ($3.90)
Hero ($20.65)
Button ($3.74)
SB ($2.43)
BB ($4.01)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, K

.
UTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.6, 3 folds, UTG folds, MP3 calls $0.50.

Flop: ($1.45) 9

, T

, 8

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $0.9, MP3 calls $0.90.

Turn: ($3.25) Q

(2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $2.6, MP3 calls $2.40 (All-In).

River: ($8.05) A

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $8.06

Results in white below:
MP3 has 8h Qh (flush, ace high).
Hero has Ks Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP3 wins $8.05.

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humanfugitive

03-13-2008, 04:06 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 147

I'm pretty sure you need to bet close to pot if not more on the flop. The texture is so drawy that you need to make chasers pay. Also, it makes it easier to put the rest in on the turn if he doesn't shove over on the flop.

taipan168

03-13-2008, 05:01 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Administrator

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Location: Sydney

Posts: 10,441

taipan168 is an unknown quantity at this point

I agree with humanfugitive, you want to bet full pot on the flop then just put him AI on the turn. That said, this is really just a bad beat because you got your money in good on the turn but got unlucky.

trump

03-13-2008, 05:04 AM

#4 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

I'm going to tear my hair out. I cannot win with AA and KK.... it's been a week since I won with the fuckers.

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Absolute-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($4.22)
UTG ($20.87)
UTG+1 ($18.75)
MP1 ($4.40)
Hero ($14.21)
MP3 ($23.16)
CO ($22.95)
Button ($18.20)
SB ($19.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A

, A

.
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.4, 1 fold, CO calls $0.40, 2 folds, BB calls $0.30.

Flop: ($1.25) 9

, 5

, 8

(3 players)
BB bets $0.3, Hero raises to $1.2, CO folds, BB calls $0.90.

Turn: ($3.65) K

(2 players)
BB bets $0.3, Hero raises to $2.9, BB calls $2.32 (All-In).

River: ($8.89) 2

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $8.90

Results in white below:
BB has Jc 9c (flush, jack high).
Hero has Ac Ah (one pair, aces).
Outcome:

I'll try and bet more aggressively in situations like the KK hand. I don't think I can possibly play the aces any different though. That's total bad beatage.

I guess I'll burn what little I have left of my Absolute poker bankroll, since I'm probably not going to be able to get back up to even the $50 needed to cash out, and I'll start over at Stars like someone else suggested.

taipan168

03-13-2008, 05:51 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: Sydney

Posts: 10,441

Yes, your AA hand is a total bad beat, there is nothing else you could have done. I might have made it $1.50 to go on the flop (being about a pot-sized raise) with the potential draws on that flop, but meh.

I know this sounds perverse and is kind of cold comfort, but you should be GLAD that you got your money in as a favourite here despite the result:

Board: 9h 5c 8c Kh
Dead:

equity win tie
Hand 0: 70.455% 70.45% 00.00% { AcAh }
Hand 1: 29.545% 29.55% 00.00% { Jc9c }

The way to think about it is like this - even if BB calls you 100% of the time, you bet $2.32 to win a pot of $6.27 which is 2.7 to 1 odds when you were better than a 2:1 favourite to win. That is like me giving you a bet with a 6-sided die where if you roll 3-6 I will pay you $2.70 but if you roll 1-2 you pay me $1. Aren't you DELIGHTED about taking this bet, even if you sometimes do roll 1-2 and lose your $1? Plus there are also the times when BB folds and you win the pot uncontested, which I haven't counted.

Otherwise, read this post - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...79.html#576017

martindcx1e

03-13-2008, 02:33 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

trump, everyone stacks off to 1/2 stacks with overpairs all the time. it's something you need to get used to. so many of them are so bad that paying them off is fine. your 2nd hand is a bad beat post. post bad beats in the bad beat forum. you obviously got your money in ahead, and there's nothing more you can ask for. no whining allowed in this forum

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

trump

03-13-2008, 04:00 PM

#7 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

You can call it whining but when I lose 95% of my bankroll on hands exactly like these I tend to think I'm doing something wrong, and I want help. Maybe if I were more experienced I'd be able to say "okay, that's shite luck" and shrug it off, but this is the grand sum of my experience and so far I'm a loser with the top five starting hands. I want help, I don't want sympathy.

... and thanks taipan168, I'll read that post tonight.

martindcx1e

03-13-2008, 04:31 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

Quote:

Originally Posted by trump

How big is your bankroll, and how many hands have you played?

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

bjsaust

03-13-2008, 11:58 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Ballarat, Australia

Posts: 5,842

Bet bigger when faced with multiple draws, stop exaggerating or learn BR management.

Just playing to improve.

Hawk

03-14-2008, 12:16 AM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Sep 2007

Posts: 367

Quote:

Originally Posted by trump

You can call it whining but when I lose 95% of my bankroll on hands exactly like these

The hands aren't the problem, this is. It sounds like you are playing with far too small of a bankroll for 10nl.

You should drop to 2nl (not sure if AP has that, if not try somewhere else that does) and build a roll from there (much worse players too)

As you admitted yourself, its the hit to the roll that hurts, not the hands themselves.

GatorJH

03-14-2008, 01:41 AM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: HotLanta

Posts: 3,179

Quote:

Originally Posted by trump

If bad beats are messing you up this bad you are most likely playing above your bankroll limits. I don't care how many times you get sucked out on, whenever you get your chips in the middle with the best hand you have done your job. The rest is up to the Poker Gods. Hell, last Friday I had some friends over for a friendly game and lost about $100 because I got sucked out on AT LEAST 7 times that night. I was starting to think that home games were rigged, but it was MY home. lol

Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.

trump

03-14-2008, 01:48 AM

#12 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

Well I wasn't exaggerating anything.... but yeah, my bankroll is admittedly undersized. Absolute doesn't go any lower than 0.05/0.10 and now I'm under the minimum needed to withdraw and take my little bit of remaining monies to lower limits elsewhere. I'll lose it and start over or get lucky and build it back to a point that I can pull out.

The guide on bankroll management was the first thing I read when I came here. I'll do it proper after I lose the rest of this with aces.

martindcx1e

03-14-2008, 05:19 AM

#13 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 3,614

good to hear you will manage your BR better trump. gl with your AP monies!

Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.

ProZachNation

03-14-2008, 06:29 AM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: Over there!

Posts: 801

Quote:

Originally Posted by trump

Well I wasn't exaggerating anything.... but yeah, my bankroll is admittedly undersized.

If you do not play within your bankroll any advice is useless and you will focus to much on winning and losing money to learn to play winning poker, so all you are doing is wasting peoples time posting bad beats.

If your hand meets this criteria don't post it. You get your money in with best hand, you lose.

KK you needed to bet larger on flop.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrhappy333

I didn't think its Bold to bang some chick with my bro. but i guess so... thats +EV in my book.

trump

03-14-2008, 03:08 PM

#15 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

Thanks for restating what has already been learned and pointlessly bitching. I greatly appreciate that you took the time to respond.

biondino

03-14-2008, 03:27 PM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Trump - how can you want help on situations where you're playing perfect poker? All we can give you is sympathy and remind you that unless we have the stone cold nuts we're going to lose hands where we're way ahead from time to time. That's it, full stop.

trump

03-14-2008, 03:32 PM

#17 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 71

I wasn't playing perfect poker though. I think I was consistently betting too soft on the flop and letting them catch up without a huge amount of risk to their stack. That's what I needed to know.

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