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Danh Bai
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10-05-2008, 04:22 PM
Post subject: KJ with a J on the flop
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 166
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This hand was in a live game tonight, what would you do here?
3 players limp in.
I've got KJs I raise to 4xbb.
The button re-raises to 8xbb.
It folds around to me.
I call the raise.
Flop comes Jc8h4d
I make a pot sized bet.
Button calls.
Turn comes 8d
I make a 3/4 pot sized bet
Button raises by same amount.
Hero?
Villain had been playing solid all night and had legitimate hands everytime it was shown down, always raising when he had strong hands and smallish bets on weaker holdings. I figured the only hands I could beat here were QJ, TJ, TT, 99 or a bluff, so I folded. Was it a good laydown?
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Yeah I fold but first off, you need to raise much bigger when there are limpers. At least to like 7xbb (4xbb+1bb for each limper). You have to call preflop to the reraise. But why do you come out betting on the flop? By checking we induce much more hands that we beat to bet and also allows for the pot to be smallish as we are OOP = what we want here. Barely any turns are scare cards. And if I bet, making it potsize really tightens his range into basically only hands that are beating us. After he accepts the potsized bet on the flop and raises a 3/4 one, I think it's pretty clear he's ahead since he's not been out of line.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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in live cash games, you should make a BIG late position raise when a few ppl limp in. If some solid players reraise, you should throw away dominated hands like KJs, KQo,QJo,QJs and even AQ. As played, donk bet into pfr on this dry flop is a dumb play and achieves nothing. Also, 4x+1 limper raise doesnt apply to live cash very well cuz those donks are way too loose and even call up to 10X preflop raise.
Its a 1-2NL live game in my local casino this weekend, 4 limpers and i raised $20 with AK in BB, 2 donks called, flop came KcJh4s. So i bet $60 and they both called, turn was 2c, i shoved my last $120 into the pot, both called, river blank. They showed me Kd8d and QTs.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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yeah not sure how big live game preflop raises were...I knew they were more but not how much more so I said at least 7xbb. Not sure why we are folding KJs or QJs to a minraise though.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kmind
yeah not sure how big live game preflop raises were...I knew they were more but not how much more so I said at least 7xbb. Not sure why we are folding KJs or QJs to a minraise though.
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we must fold these hands cuz 3 bet in live passive games always sounds to me like AK, QQ+. Seriously, I'd call with any pairs instead if implied odds are awesome.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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I'm just saying to a minraise it seems profitable at least 100bb deep to call with those hands. Same with PP of course.
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xX zorrito Xx
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wellington, FL
Posts: 300
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you are splitting the pot AT BEST in this situation... i insta muck...
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