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Iwind
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09-12-2005, 07:26 AM
Post subject: Just starting
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Watched some tournament from Las Vegas on TV the other night, never seen Texas Hold'Em played before, but it looked like a great game so I tried it out on Pacific Poker yesturday. I guess very few of you use it, but in case you do, it is possible to play with "play money" on there. I feel that is a good way to try it out, don't feel like gambling my real cash untill I have some idea of what I am doing.
However, after reading a bit on the basics on the game here, winning on there is fairly easy, doubled what I stared with a few times, so my question is, would going in on the lowest real money tables be a huge difference? Will people be much better? And how is competition on the lower money tables vs the higher ones? I'm playing no limit.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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playing with real money is not necessarily a million times harder than playing with play money, its just totally different. its almost like they're not even the same game. play money is to monopoly as real money is to poker. not too many books about the strategy of monopoly have been written.
The competition at lower levels isn't a whole ton easier than at higher levels, though it definitely does get harder with each step up you take. as you get higher, you see less idiots, and less people essentially giving away free money. I recommend starting at .05/.1 and working your way up.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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I just realized I need to clarify something.
"The competition at lower levels isn't a whole ton easier than at higher levels"
This is better said as, The competition at higher levels isn't a whole ton better than at lower levels
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Ivory
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Straight
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 117
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nope, they're just a whole load richer 
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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Yea stick a couple of quid o pokerstars or pacific and play $5 NL or whatever. Its not that expensive but its a step up from playmoney madness.
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Thank you for tips. I tried out the 0,02 and 0,10BB tables at Paradise Poker, seems to be much harder at the 0,10BB where I lost money fast while at 0,02 I was making money. I suppose I should see if I make profit or go out even at the lower table before moving up.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Yes, you should. If you're playing patient, sensible poker, you will end up consistently (albeit with big swings due to variance - and due to you still learning the game) winning at the micro-levels. If you can't consistently win there, then you really shouldn't consider moving up.
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Xanadu
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Location: st. paul, MO
Posts: 966
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Unless you are a pure natural at hold'em, you are going to lose a lot until you get a decent theoretical basis. Just my opinion, but the best way to do this is to play limit, not no-limit. Why? Limit forces you to make close decisions over and over again based on your odds of winning (which you must continuously evaluate).
Your first step is to get a solid understanding of pre-flop play. This doesn't mean becoming an expert, just the basics of what hands are good and in what position relative to the action before you. If you make big mistakes pre-flop, you have a problem, if only because you have the opportunity to make that mistake every single hand.
Once you have the fundamentals of solid preflop play, you should spend the vast majority of your time developing your post-flop play. Money is made in holdem after the flop ... you just have to learn to play well preflop so that you don't lose so much there that you can't make it up post-flop! You should become a very good post-flop player before investing a huge amount of time becoming an expert preflop player.
I highly recommend you read Ed Miller's 'Small Stakes Hold'em'. It is definitely not the simplest of books, but if you were to buy 1 book that would teach you to think the right way about Texas Hold'em (especially playing low limits) that would be it.
Good Luck
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Hi. Was playing Empire at the 25NL tables last night, first winning $50 the first two hours, and then losing more than I won the last two hours. I've been reading quite a bit about pre-flop play, and think I at least know some of the basics now, like wich hands are good and see how my position on the tables matters quite a lot.
However, when I get good hands I tend to raise 5-10BB depending on the situation and then hand, but at the tables I play at this usually makes almost everyone fold so I don't get much from it. If I only raise small, like 2-4BB, maybe 3-6 players will call, but then I tend to lose unless I have AAs or KK. Not quite sure what to do sitting there with QQ, JJ, TT, KQ, QJ when say only low cards flop or the other situation an A flops. Most times when I win much it's cause I limp in on decent cards and get lucky with the flop.
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DoGGz
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iwind
Hi. Was playing Empire at the 25NL tables last night, first winning $50 the first two hours, and then losing more than I won the last two hours. I've been reading quite a bit about pre-flop play, and think I at least know some of the basics now, like wich hands are good and see how my position on the tables matters quite a lot.
However, when I get good hands I tend to raise 5-10BB depending on the situation and then hand, but at the tables I play at this usually makes almost everyone fold so I don't get much from it. If I only raise small, like 2-4BB, maybe 3-6 players will call, but then I tend to lose unless I have AAs or KK. Not quite sure what to do sitting there with QQ, JJ, TT, KQ, QJ when say only low cards flop or the other situation an A flops. Most times when I win much it's cause I limp in on decent cards and get lucky with the flop. |
KQ and QJ aren't as powerful as you might think. QQ JJ TT hope that the flop is a bunch of low cards or you flop 3 of a kind. 99 88 - 22 I like to play for the value that 3 of a kind is a very strong hand in holdem and often will win a good sized pot.
Just keep playing and you will continue to learn.
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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Iwing - just raise 4 every time. there is hardly ever a situation where you need to change from that, except when there are many callers before you, then bump it to 5-6.
more or less never play qj, rarely play kq unless you have position and many folds before you. you want a few callers with your aa-kk, but like 1-3 is much better than 3-6. i doubt raising 6bb gets all folds every time but raising 4bb every time gets 3-6 callers every time. raise 4 with your raising hands for a while, if you're getting too many callers, do 5, stop there.
And, you're right on the limping thing. If you limp aces, you will win bigger pots than if you raise them. But, you will win them less consistently, and you will lose bigger pots as well. You are trading winning a big pot every say 10 times you have aces and winning basically no pot or losing significant money the other 9, for winning a moderate pot every time and losing a moderate pot maybe 1 in 10
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Iwind
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 436
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Thanks again for advice, I think that is what I'm doing wrong, when I have a good hand I want to make a big pot with it, so I just raise a little and then the flop is bad for my hand, but still I want to stick to it since it was a good hand in the first place. Guess you know what I mean?
Another thing is that I probably play more hand then I should, it's very easy to just hit the call button after sitting out not playing for a while. But I guess I should avoid the call button as much as possible and just fold my medium hands, not call them, and raise when I have a real good one?
And about my real good hands, AA, KK, AK, QQ. Find it annoying when I only get blinds or blinds and 1-2 callers before me who fold in income from them, but I guess just getting this is the way to go instead of limping in then.
All in all I guess I should be pleased with the way it goes.
Started: $100
Next day: $60
Next day: $120
Yesturday: $100
Today: $60
This is total, play both on Empire where I have to play the 0.25 tables where the swings are huge and I will probably go broke there at some point. On Paradise they have the 0.02 tables and cheap tournaments, won the first 1 table one I every played last night, $25, wich I'm quite happy about.
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jukejointroach
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 131
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a couple face cards preflop are like a pretty hooker. they looks nice and they'll keep you company for a while but you don't wanna spend the rest of yer life with 'em.
and they can get real expensive.
like some of these guys said, check out some books from 2+2, study the starting hands. keep it tight. you're a rock--a fire breathing, ass kicking, check raising, pot raking motherfucking rock.
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