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spoonitnow
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01-05-2008, 12:40 PM
Post subject: This just occured to me...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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When you decide to play poker, you're trying to make money, right?
But then the choices some people make at (and away from) the table seem to imply the opposite.
Are you really trying to make money?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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It's not my primary goal, no. I mean, it's too intrinsic to the game to separate the money from the winning from the satisfaction in any meaningful sense; but I don't play for income.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
It's not my primary goal, no. I mean, it's too intrinsic to the game to separate the money from the winning from the satisfaction in any meaningful sense; but I don't play for income.
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Well I didn't really mean it as playing for actual money or income, but more in the sense that the premise for playing is to try to win, but some people don't try to win.
Playing chess or checkers or any board game lends a decent analogy here. Consider someone who wants to play and is a very serious competitor, but plays random moves without thinking or reason. The point of playing is to try to win, but they're not really trying to win.
I hope this makes sense; it's kind of hard to put into words.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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Most people at the table are there to gamble, not to "make" money as you put it. Gambling is a vice, just like guns, sex, or weed. It is something people do to escape the droll of everyday life, and gambling, not making money, is what does it.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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My initial thought was that you were implying they tried to make money at the table, but then wasted money away from the table.
It seems like you're actually using money as the metric but questioning how they use their time to reach their goal.
@Dean:
You're somewhat right that a lot of people are gambooling and that's why poker need to be legal so we make more money. However, at 100NL most people aren't there to gambol. Most think they're making money, or at least capable of making money.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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People at the table do their best to "win", TV poker made sure of that - in order for ESPN to coin TV poker it was necessary to give it something synonymous with all sports - victory/championship/winning. Ever played a $50 donkament and thought that you'd cut your left arm off to get that load of players at a $50NL cashgame?
You can't tell your friends that you won a cashgame the other night.
I remember having some fish chase down a gutshot with obscene odds vs. my top set, and having hit it on the river and stacked me, he goes "yes!", I go "wtf i run so bad" and he goes "i always go for the win card".
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swig/Dean
However, at 100NL most people aren't there to gambol. Most think they're making money, or at least capable of making money.
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I'd say 95% of the fish population say they "made" X amount.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Swig/Dean
However, at 100NL most people aren't there to gambol. Most think they're making money, or at least capable of making money.
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I'd say 95% of the fish population say they "made" X amount. |
Since I can't beat them I like to think they're at least competent 
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mknickle
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 11
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Anyone who plays poker is going to say they make money...it looks bad if you say you lose money...and nobody wants to be a loser. The main problem most people do is play outside their skill level and outside their bankroll.
Therefore, start of low and when you can constantly beat one level then move up...and only when you're rolled for the level should you move up. Therefore, if you focus on those two things you'll be a winning poker player. If you can't beat the level you're currently at then obviously you're not good enough and you have leaks in your game.
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Hawk
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 367
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I agree that it's largely about gambling, but not just about the money. I think many of go after the feeling they get when they successfully push a better hand out of a pot w/ a "GREAT" bluff, and when it doesn't work, they "just got caught this time".
They go after ego plays to make themselves feel better since they don't care enough, or have the patience, to actually learn how to win regularly.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Jesus Christ nevermind you gambling fucking degenerates
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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Are you talking about people that play for the sake of playing? They don't do everything in their power to win. Like study? Or that they play ATC just because they are bored. Is this about work ethic, focus and reasoning for doing what we do?
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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It occured to me too how easy it is to win money at poker if
- You are a realist
- You can learn quickly
- You are not a degen (understand bankroll management)
- You can grind
If you have all these 3 things you should be able to make money at poker as long as making money is your primary goal.
eg.
I suck, have been playing for 1 week. I grind 2NL profitably.
As opposed to: I rule, one day I will win the WSOP Main Event, I am too good for bankroll management. I would win a ton but these suckers keep drawing out on me, calling all the time, how the f@#< am I going to get them off their hands? I think online poker is rigged but I'm def a winning player.
I think as long as you have the right mindset winning at poker is easy.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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You listed 4 things.
Also I meet all 4 criteria but don't win money at poker, so I would disagree with the easy part.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms
Are you talking about people that play for the sake of playing? They don't do everything in their power to win. Like study? Or that they play ATC just because they are bored. Is this about work ethic, focus and reasoning for doing what we do?
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Yeah sorta. Hell I dunno.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
It occured to me too how easy it is to win money at poker if
- You are a realist
- You can learn quickly
- You are not a degen (understand bankroll management)
- You can grind
If you have all these 3 things you should be able to make money at poker as long as making money is your primary goal.
eg.
I suck, have been playing for 1 week. I grind 2NL profitably.
As opposed to: I rule, one day I will win the WSOP Main Event, I am too good for bankroll management. I would win a ton but these suckers keep drawing out on me, calling all the time, how the f@#< am I going to get them off their hands? I think online poker is rigged but I'm def a winning player.
I think as long as you have the right mindset winning at poker is easy. |
ding ding ding ding
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
You listed 4 things.
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 I edited to add you can grind and didn't proof read. I guess being good at maths helps too so clearly I fail.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
Also I meet all 4 criteria but don't win money at poker, so I would disagree with the easy part.
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Maybe you are being unrealisic with your self assessment? Not meant to sound condescending, you are better than me but I don't understand why you would not win long term if you meet those criteria. Of course it's not easy to keep the right mental approach, as it says on someones sig poker drives people "batshit".
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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1) I'm curious why you think I'm a better player then you.
2) I didn't say I shouldn't be a winning player. I just said it's not that easy.
Maybe you should add a fifth, # hands played > x, and pick a number.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
1) I'm curious why you think I'm a better player then you.
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Well, I've only been playing for ~1 year and while I feel I have got to grips with some of the fundamentals of the game there's still so much to learn. I am inobservant and impatient. And you play omahahahaha which as far as I can see is impossible. It may be that we are of a similar standard but I don't know...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
2) I didn't say I shouldn't be a winning player. I just said it's not that easy.
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I guess what I meant in my post is your approach to the game is more important than your skill level in determining whether you are a winning player... This may sound stupid, but it isn't - note that I didn't mention which level you play at...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by swiggidy
Maybe you should add a fifth, # hands played > x, and pick a number.
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It wasn't meant as a complete list or anything like that... It was just something that I have been thinking about. By winning player I mean a player who consistantly enters the game with +EV.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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well damn i for one see what you are saying spoon, nice post.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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FWIW I wasn't trying to attack your ideas.
My #5 sucks anyways. TJs put in a lot of hands and struggled for a long time.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
By winning player I mean a player who consistently enters the game with +EV.
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Interesting way to view it. I would then try and argue I'm a winning player, too bad my BR doesn't agree 
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EvIlK3Rn3L
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 20
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There Is Only 1 Reason I Play Poker And 1 Reason Alone... That Is To Make As Much Money As Possible. I Get No Joy Or Sece Of Acomplishment In My 1 And 2 Cent Blind Games... The Only And I Do Mean ''ONLY'' Reason I Am There Is To Exploit The Hell Out Of People Callink My 3 Of A Kind With There Seven Duce... So Far, And Mainley Due To The Posts And People At FTR I Am Abil To Do This.. I Started Poker About A Month Ago With A $20 Dollar Bank Roll, Im Now Up To Just Under $100... Ok Its Small Potatoes I Know.. I Worked Out That I Earn About A Tenth Of What A Swet Shop Slaves Houyrly Rate It... But, I Do It In My Spare Time And Im Still Just Learning... I Dont Gamble... Ill Only Go To The Showdown If Im 110% Sure I Am Going To Win... This Means For Me To Have A Minimum ''MINIMUM'' Of 3 Of A Kind... Idealy More .. And No  I Dont Mean 3 Duces... Jacks Minimum, With No Possibility Of 3Q, 3K Or Three Aces. Yep I Do Get It Wrong... And Whare I Used To Call Some Hands A Gamble, I Now Try To Think Of It As Calculated Risk... And I Think Hard How Going All In On A Particular Game Will Make My Bank Roll Look Like If Im Wrong
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EvIlK3Rn3L
There Is Only 1 Reason I Play Poker And 1 Reason Alone... That Is To Make As Much Money As Possible. I Get No Joy Or Sece Of Acomplishment In My 1 And 2 Cent Blind Games... The Only And I Do Mean ''ONLY'' Reason I Am There Is To Exploit The Hell Out Of People Callink My 3 Of A Kind With There Seven Duce... So Far, And Mainley Due To The Posts And People At FTR I Am Abil To Do This.. I Started Poker About A Month Ago With A $20 Dollar Bank Roll, Im Now Up To Just Under $100... Ok Its Small Potatoes I Know.. I Worked Out That I Earn About A Tenth Of What A Swet Shop Slaves Houyrly Rate It... But, I Do It In My Spare Time And Im Still Just Learning... I Dont Gamble... Ill Only Go To The Showdown If Im 110% Sure I Am Going To Win... This Means For Me To Have A Minimum ''MINIMUM'' Of 3 Of A Kind... Idealy More .. And No I Dont Mean 3 Duces... Jacks Minimum, With No Possibility Of 3Q, 3K Or Three Aces. Yep I Do Get It Wrong... And Whare I Used To Call Some Hands A Gamble, I Now Try To Think Of It As Calculated Risk... And I Think Hard How Going All In On A Particular Game Will Make My Bank Roll Look Like If Im Wrong |
I can't even read this.
I fit the "moderately reformed" gambling degen category, spoon. Gambling is my one vice. (WTF? sex is a vice, glow? ok, maybe two vices.) That's my nature. When I control it, I win $$. When it controls me...
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DetroitHusling101
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Just runnin...
Posts: 1,385
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Robb
Quote:
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Originally Posted by EvIlK3Rn3L
There Is Only 1 Reason I Play Poker And 1 Reason Alone... That Is To Make As Much Money As Possible. I Get No Joy Or Sece Of Acomplishment In My 1 And 2 Cent Blind Games... The Only And I Do Mean ''ONLY'' Reason I Am There Is To Exploit The Hell Out Of People Callink My 3 Of A Kind With There Seven Duce... So Far, And Mainley Due To The Posts And People At FTR I Am Abil To Do This.. I Started Poker About A Month Ago With A $20 Dollar Bank Roll, Im Now Up To Just Under $100... Ok Its Small Potatoes I Know.. I Worked Out That I Earn About A Tenth Of What A Swet Shop Slaves Houyrly Rate It... But, I Do It In My Spare Time And Im Still Just Learning... I Dont Gamble... Ill Only Go To The Showdown If Im 110% Sure I Am Going To Win... This Means For Me To Have A Minimum ''MINIMUM'' Of 3 Of A Kind... Idealy More .. And No I Dont Mean 3 Duces... Jacks Minimum, With No Possibility Of 3Q, 3K Or Three Aces. Yep I Do Get It Wrong... And Whare I Used To Call Some Hands A Gamble, I Now Try To Think Of It As Calculated Risk... And I Think Hard How Going All In On A Particular Game Will Make My Bank Roll Look Like If Im Wrong |
I can't even read this. |
I'll summarize what he said.
He's new to poker. He plays to make money. He makes only about 1/10 of what a sweat shop worker makes. He does not gamble. He will not play if he does not have a set or better , and not just a set of 2's (i think he means he will muck a set of 2's to agression). He needs a set of jacks or higher , and no possibility of a set of Aces , Queens or Kings out there (so more or less top set , and it has to be jacks+).
If you see him on the tables , bluff the hell out of him!
No seriously you sound like your playing supppeerrr weak tight , if I'm understanding your post correctly.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DetroitHusling101
I'll summarize what he said.
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Thanks
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EvIlK3Rn3L
There Is Only 1 Reason I Play Poker And 1 Reason Alone... That Is To Make As Much Money As Possible. I Get No Joy Or Sece Of Acomplishment In My 1 And 2 Cent Blind Games... The Only And I Do Mean ''ONLY'' Reason I Am There Is To Exploit The Hell Out Of People Callink My 3 Of A Kind With There Seven Duce... So Far, And Mainley Due To The Posts And People At FTR I Am Abil To Do This.. I Started Poker About A Month Ago With A $20 Dollar Bank Roll, Im Now Up To Just Under $100... Ok Its Small Potatoes I Know.. I Worked Out That I Earn About A Tenth Of What A Swet Shop Slaves Houyrly Rate It... But, I Do It In My Spare Time And Im Still Just Learning... I Dont Gamble... Ill Only Go To The Showdown If Im 110% Sure I Am Going To Win... This Means For Me To Have A Minimum ''MINIMUM'' Of 3 Of A Kind... Idealy More .. And No I Dont Mean 3 Duces... Jacks Minimum, With No Possibility Of 3Q, 3K Or Three Aces. Yep I Do Get It Wrong... And Whare I Used To Call Some Hands A Gamble, I Now Try To Think Of It As Calculated Risk... And I Think Hard How Going All In On A Particular Game Will Make My Bank Roll Look Like If Im Wrong |
You play too weak-tight if you really do play according to what you just said here. Also, you're playing too high if you consider how going all-in on a single hand will affect your bankroll.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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