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BooG690
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03-07-2009, 07:06 AM
Post subject: Just Entering 5NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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Since going on a ridiculous heater in 2NL since February 14th (up $98.50), I've chosen to move up to 5NL. I buy in for $10 at the table...I know I'm not following the 20 buy-in guideline and I may just be on a heater, but I figured it's time. I've been playing at a 5NL table or two while multi-tabling and have been doing OK. I'm not solely playing 5NL but the majority of my tables will be 5NL (I will keep one or two 2NL tables going). 5NL is a bit more aggressive and the players have a little bit of a better idea of what to do with their hands, but I definitely find it very beatable. I plan on getting my bankroll up to $220+ before moving up to 10NL.
Why am I posting this if most of you don't care? Well, it's about 475 more posts until I can get a blog on this thing so I figured I'd update using the thread. Any advice on 5NL, words of encouragement, or mocking would be greatly appreciated.
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Micro2Macro
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
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Advice: Buy in for $5 to get used to the effective stack being $5. Most of the time you'll be stacking people that are only $5 deep, but you still run the risk of getting manhandled by a $10 stack, thus, $10 or 10% of your bankroll is at risk, and that's not good. Trust me, if you lose just 2 full buy-ins that's 20% of your roll and you won't like that. If anything goes bad your limiting your growth potential towards $10nl by putting too much of your roll at risk.
Good thinking waiting till $220+ to get to $10nl though.
You should consider starting an 'operation thread' in the operations and blogs forum. You don't need 500+ posts to start one, and they can also be very self-motivating as you can update your progress and basically blog in it. I find having one keeps me on track. You can review your goals anytime you like and post your progress to see how far you've come. Then you can get one of those banner's if you like for your operation to show your progress on a scale.
GL at $5nl.
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"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."
Check out my blog here!
"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"
http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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Oooo...an operations thread. I'm definitely going to get on that. I appreciate it! Thanks!
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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Yeah it's slightly tighter play at $5NL but not by much it's just more money put in. If you're going to buy in for $10 then play $10NL otherwise you'll just be looking for another deep stack to play against.
Just put it this way, you're be making more than twice the money you were before at $5NL. Micro's right, don't play outside your BR.
And don't worry about that blog. Spend your time playing poker, you can post on your breaks 
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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That's great to hear that you're moving up. It's inspirational to hear that when I'm grinding away at $2NL. *sigh* one day I'll be there.. One day.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xpaand
That's great to hear that you're moving up. It's inspirational to hear that when I'm grinding away at $2NL. *sigh* one day I'll be there.. One day.
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Yes, yes you will. It took me 3 1/2 mind numbing months  to get through it but I did. It was a BITCH though, especially January, breakeven the whole damn month, but tbh now that I've made it, I wouldn't have it any other way. Going through all the crappy hands and stupid beats really helped me get through some discipline/tilt issues I had, so don't move up before you are ready.
Get out there and GET SOME!!!
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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I'm finally getting the hang of 5NL. The only thing I noticed it they fold a LOT more PF. I would raise my standard 3-5xbb and I would get a LOT more folds than I would have in 2NL. I find myself collecting blinds a lot. Did you guys see the same thing when moving up?
I'm gonna keep playing my standard game. I know not to deviate from those PF raises (except of course raising randomly to throw my opponents off  ).
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Taicho
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Bloomington, IL
Posts: 102
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Grats on moving up bud. I'm working my way up too, maybe I'll see you at those tables in a few weeks
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Yes, yes you will. It took me 3 1/2 mind numbing months to get through it but I did. It was a BITCH though, especially January, breakeven the whole damn month, but tbh now that I've made it, I wouldn't have it any other way. Going through all the crappy hands and stupid beats really helped me get through some discipline/tilt issues I had, so don't move up before you are ready.
Get out there and GET SOME!!! |
Oh yay... I've been breaking even and I'm not too sure why. Anyways, I'm gonna get a PokerTracker trial and I'll post up my stats so I guess I'll soon find out.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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Hope you've been saving your hands. If not, click that option ASAP so you don't lose any hands. Remember, it's always best to post at 10K (so there's a big enough sample size) and look at other's stats so you know what would be standard. As you go along, you may be able to spot your own leaks...and we'll help you out here when you get to 10K hands.
Here's a link to my stats (if that'll be any help): Enjoy!
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Oh thanks a lot Boo. I love the support in this forum. Anyways, I am saving my hands, but I think I'm gonna start fresh tonight and really pay attention to try to prevent leaks and get to 5k hands.
The reason I'm saying 5k is cause I'm gonna get the trial of PokerTracker cause I can't afford to pay $120 CDN to buy it. Especially when that's 4X my current BR haha.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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ArcadianRock
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Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
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You get 60 days which is amazing and will probably get you up to $5NL. Don't take the winnings out of your BR to buy it though that will hurt in the long run, just pony up the dough with your own money and buy it. My birthday is coming up, I'll have to ask my gf to buy it for me.
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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make sure that you have your poker site software set up so that it saves your hand histories to disk. On Stars you can get your hand histories for a certain period of time in the past emailed to you.
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xpaand
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
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Yeah I got it all set up. I can't wait to get home from work tonight. I decided I'm going to reformat my computer (I have so many games and crap on it that used to distract me from school / poker), and then I'm going to get the trial. Thanks for pointing out that I shouldn't spend my BR on it (I wouldn't have anyways) and I should be able to get it two pay periods from now. I blew a lot of money on a business trip to Vegas a few weeks back and that's why I'm so broke. But still, thinking about spending 4X my BR to get PT is kinda funny haha. I feel like I should deposit more money into my account and start at $5NL.
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OP: Beginner to Master
If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
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BooG690
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,439
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by xpaand
The reason I'm saying 5k is cause I'm gonna get the trial of PokerTracker cause I can't afford to pay $120 CDN to buy it. Especially when that's 4X my current BR haha.
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I'm still on my free trial and I'm at 12K hands. The trial got me through 2NL and onto 5NL. After the trial is over? Time to try out HEM! LOL.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by xpaand
I feel like I should deposit more money into my account and start at $5NL.
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I suggest you stay at 2NL and work your way up. You'll feel more satisfied with yourself and also be ready for 5NL. It took me a session or two to adapt to 5NL from 2NL...and a little less than 20 days to get up to it. It shouldn't be a problem to get there with a $50 deposit. Get your roll up to $100 and buy into the 5NL games with $5.
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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I seem to remember someone saying (Robb I think, although Spoon has definitely said this as well) that the micro levels are almost perfectly designed to teach you the basics of good play at all stages of a hand.
So, 2nl teaches you the basics of good play Pre-Flop. At 5nl you have to be able to play decently on the flop. 10nl you need good turn play to be a winner. And 25nl is the first level where you need to play reasonably well on all streets to make any money.
From my experiences so far (at present rate I'll hopefully be at 10nl in about a month) I think this is very accurate.
With specific reference to 5nl I found when I moved up that whereas beating 2nl is simply about selecting good hands preflop, hitting, and then pretty much mindlessly value betting down to the river, 5nl requires you to make slightly harder decisions on the flop, where you'll get people playing back at you a little more and so on. Once you get used to this, it becomes fairly ABC.
Always bear in mind of course that progress can still be painfully slow, don't fall into the "it's 5nl, why aren't I beating it for 20ptBB/100!?" because (believe me) that will slow you down even more.
GL at the tables man.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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But what if you ARE beating it for 20bb+/100?
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
But what if you ARE beating it for 20bb+/100? |
Then you'll be moving up in no time and you needn't worry. The point I was making is that downswings happen, even at the micros. However, a psychological mistake I used to make was to think I "should" be beating it for a certain rate, I'd beat myself up because I wasn't and would thus compound a downswing with bad play.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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NH sir. And yes, that is definitely something you can't be thinking while playing. I did the same thing and I would be checking my stats/graph after every big hand. I decided to just NOT look at my BR/stats/graph for an entire week. I already wrote about this...lol but anyways yea, it worked really well.
Your focus shouldn't be on how MUCH you're making, but on how WELL you're playing. If you get stacked, but you were getting the right price with pot odds compared to you equity vs. his range, then you made the right choice and should be happy you got your money in.
Sorry for being an ass Monsieir_chat lol. I tend to do that from time to time...
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Muzzard
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
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If you want a blog you can just open a free wordpress account or something and have your sig op banner reroute to that url. If you're not bothered about having a proper blog then just create an OP thread imo.
Link for OP banners is here:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...er-t57676.html
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okiman
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 171
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Monsieur_chat
I seem to remember someone saying (Robb I think, although Spoon has definitely said this as well) that the micro levels are almost perfectly designed to teach you the basics of good play at all stages of a hand.
So, 2nl teaches you the basics of good play Pre-Flop. At 5nl you have to be able to play decently on the flop. 10nl you need good turn play to be a winner. And 25nl is the first level where you need to play reasonably well on all streets to make any money.
From my experiences so far (at present rate I'll hopefully be at 10nl in about a month) I think this is very accurate.
With specific reference to 5nl I found when I moved up that whereas beating 2nl is simply about selecting good hands preflop, hitting, and then pretty much mindlessly value betting down to the river, 5nl requires you to make slightly harder decisions on the flop, where you'll get people playing back at you a little more and so on. Once you get used to this, it becomes fairly ABC.
Always bear in mind of course that progress can still be painfully slow, don't fall into the "it's 5nl, why aren't I beating it for 20ptBB/100!?" because (believe me) that will slow you down even more.
GL at the tables man.
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It's true for 10nl and 25nl too. Having gone through each of these up to 25nl now, the above statement describes the process well. It's a perfect way to learn how to play nl one step at a time.
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Monsieur_chat
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: London
Posts: 254
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dranger7070
Sorry for being an ass Monsieir_chat lol. I tend to do that from time to time...
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Not at all!
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