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Is this just bad luck or were the signs there?

  
 
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Anosmic
Old 03-05-2006, 11:01 PM     Post subject: Is this just bad luck or were the signs there? #1 (permalink)  
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This hand hurt, obviously. So now I'm wondering if I ought to have seen some sort of sign here.
I'm just not sure how to distinguish what happened from TPTK or even overpair.

When do you stop putting them on overpair/top pair and start thinking 2pair/set? Is there actually an answer to this question?

** Fantastic Four [Hold 'em] (0.05|0.10 No Limit - Cash Game) Real Money
SB posted the small blind - $0.05
Anosmic posted the big blind - $0.10

** Dealing card to Anosmic: 3 of Spades, Queen of Diamonds

UTG folded
UTG+1 called - $0.10
3 fold
Villain called - $0.10
BTN folded
SB called - $0.10
Anosmic checked

** Dealing the flop: 8 of Hearts, Queen of Hearts, 3 of Diamonds

SB checked
Anosmic bet - $0.30
UTG+1 called - $0.30
Villain raised - $0.60
SB folded
Anosmic raised - $0.90
BTN called - $0.90
Villain raised - $1.20
Anosmic called - $1.20
BTN called - $1.20

** Dealing the turn: 7 of Diamonds
Anosmic checked
BTN checked
Villain went all-in - $4.77
Anosmic went all-in - $3.65
BTN folded

Villain shows: 8 of Spades, Queen of Spades
** Dealing the river: 10 of Clubs

Villain wins $11.00 from the main pot
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donkbee
Old 03-06-2006, 12:10 AM     Post subject: Re: Is this just bad luck or were the signs there? #2 (permalink)  
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 Two pairs is never ever the nuts. That being said, this was kinda bad luck and I would have trouble getting away from this hand too.

A few things about the betting that should have worried you, however. The villian reraised you TWICE. What does that mean? It means, "I freaking LOVE my hand." With this information, you need to think about what you know about the villian. Does he overvalue certain hands? Or does he only bet monsters? Would a normal player be reraising twice with only top pair? Warning bells should have been going off really really loudly.

One last thing. Your HH really confuses me. What are the starting stacks? And does "Anosmic raised - $0.90" mean that he raised 90 cents or that he raised TO 90 cents? If it's the latter (as I think it is), you need to reraise him MUCH more on the flop after he min raises you, this will give you a better indication of where you stand. If he calls or reraises a bigger reraise, you're probably done with the hand.



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Why poker fucks with our heads: it's the master that beats you for bringing in the paper, then gives you a milkbone for peeing on the carpet.
 
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Anosmic
Old 03-06-2006, 06:32 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Thanks courtiebee.

In retrospect I felt that these re-raises, plus the all-in when the turn was lower than his 8 ought to have at least made me think harder (although I was thinking; and only just managed to get my bet in with 1 second left).

I trimmed the HH down a little, I took out the stack sizes since the most directly relevant (me + villain) is discernible from the all-in amounts.
The raises I thought were TO values, but the covertor thinks differently. I agree they can be confusing (I think all Prima skins use this format).

I have to admit that I find raises hard to figure. I doubled his raise, should I have doubled his bet? Or make a two-thirds pot raise?

I found a convertor which can handle Prima so here's an updated version (though I'm not sure it's right):

Prima Poker skin
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.05/$0.10
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $11.76
UTG+1: $16.24
MP1: $3.90
MP2: $3.60
MP3: $6.85
CO: $6.07
Button: $7.90
SB: $1.91
Hero: $4.85

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is BB with 3 Q
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls $0.1, 3 folds, CO calls $0.1, Button folds, SB calls $0.1, Hero checks.

Flop: 8 Q 3 ($0.4, 4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.3, UTG+1 calls $0.3, CO raises to $0.6, SB folds, Hero raises to $1.2, UTG+1 calls $0.9, CO raises to $1.8, Hero calls $1.2, UTG+1 calls $1.2.

Turn: 7 ($4.6, 3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO is all-in $4.77, Hero calls all-in $3.65, UTG+1 folds.
Uncalled bets: $1.12 returned to CO.

River: T ($11.9, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $11.9)


Results:
Final pot: $11.9
Results in white:
CO shows 8s Qs

{edited by courtiebee because the converter sucks}
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underminedsk
Old 03-06-2006, 07:28 AM #4 (permalink)  
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at those stakes, my money is in.
online br: $14,000, @400NL full ring, 100NL 6 max
 
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Irisheyes
Old 03-06-2006, 10:48 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Whats with all the flapping around on the flop, if you wan't your $$ in (which you do) then just push before you see a or another 8 on the turn. I'd have reservations about putting a full stack in here by the way. I'd probably define my hand strongly on the flop and then go into cheap showdown mode. And don't play with half stacks either.
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