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JJ giving me a bunch of trouble

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IowaSkinsFan

08-05-2005, 04:25 AM Post subject: JJ giving me a bunch of trouble

#1 (permalink)

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IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

JJ is giving me so much trouble, it seems like everytime i call a raise with it, and is heads up, i run into QQ, and lose all my chips. if im heads up and someone bets a blank flop. should i reraise to see where im at, or should i just fold realizing someone has a higher pair? and if they call my reraise what should i do then? should i guess a draw because every other time they just called my reraise and had QQ and i pushed the turn.

help would be appreciated.

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08-05-2005, 06:37 AM

#2 (permalink)

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You're going to run into a bigger pair only one in 74 times you hold JJ

Depending on how loose or tight your opponents are you might get a read
but I guess that's just being unlucky anyway
no one waits for AA KK QQ only

Miffed22001

08-05-2005, 10:25 AM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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More kamikaze JJ play

If the flop comes rags and he bets, reraise. I think your unlucky if you run into a higher pair so i'd keep betting at him if he turns over a higher pp then hot damn but most times he wont.
Its a similar situation to when you have tptk and someone keeps calling your 1/2 or full pot bets down to the river. wtf does the other guy have? Here you need to trust your read and be agressive.
Typically, i reraise preflop with something like JJ to commit the other guy to a hand i can read. Then i bet the flop regardless what comes down. If his hand is better you find out quick enough.

sinky

08-05-2005, 11:43 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

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Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

You're going to run into a bigger pair only one in 74 times you hold JJ

1 in 74 is way of the mark !

If you are holding JJ The chances of any given player been dealt AA, KK or QQ is 12/50 * 3/49 = 1.47%. Each of your 9 opponents has the same odds, so there is 13.22% chance or 1 in 7.5 chance that an opponent has a higher pp.

IowaSkinsFan

08-05-2005, 01:56 PM

#5 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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Posts: 7,148

Well thanks i guess i've gotten unlucky but it seems like i've run into QQ every time in this situation.

zenbitz

08-05-2005, 04:33 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

You calculation is wrong, you can't just multiply 9 X 1.47 and get 13.22, although because P is low, you are approximatly correct.

What if P was 15% instead of 1.47? Then you mutliply by 9 and get 135%?!?!?!

Chance of at least 1 person having AA/KK/QQ is 1-Chance NO ONE has it.

That's 1-(.9853)^9th power = 12.5%, 1 in 8.

Of course, that's only at a full table.

Rondavu

08-05-2005, 04:38 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

That's gotta be wrong. If your calculations are correct, then that means when you're sitting at a full ring at least someone will have QQ KK or AA every hand. Of course that's not the case, so what's the deal?

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

PokerPatNEU

08-05-2005, 04:50 PM

#8 (permalink)

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He's saying that ~12% number is the chance that one person at the table has a higher PP than JJ. If you're playing a full ring, you should see a QQ KK or AA at least once every orbit I would think...Unfortunate if that happens to be when you're holding JJ, but usually you can pick up on it from the pre flop play if you're lucky.

zenbitz

08-05-2005, 05:02 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 2,911

Yes, 1 in 8 for ANYONE, so 1 time in 8 orbits.
That's true exactly if YOU have no A/K/Q in YOUR hand.

Since you will only get JJ 1 in 210 hands - having JJ vs KK/AA/QQ should happen to you 1 in every 1680 hands or so.

Lukie

08-05-2005, 06:31 PM

#10 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

In ep: limp-call. Try to set. Lead out as an overpair fold to a raise.
In mp: You could make a case for limping behind other limpers and trying to set OR raising ep limpers becuase they are probably limping with lower pairs.
In lp: Raise (sometimes reraise to isolate) to thin the field. Bet any flop (op dependant).

Remember, you can always just limp to set with JJ in any position if you like.

-'rilla

ripjohngotti

08-06-2005, 12:59 AM

#11 (permalink)

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ep? lp? mp?

30%

Still looking for my royal flush.

08-06-2005, 01:34 AM

#12 (permalink)

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oh I did 1-72 for each person
with 9 other people
it's 1-8 for one person to have it

mouteut

08-07-2005, 11:33 PM

#13 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 152

WHat are the odds of having KK vs AA on a 6 player table?

Because maybe u guys will laugh at my story but, i basicelly got to 120$ with 25$ on 5/10 pennie nl and then i decided to try out some high stake just for fun......

Then i ran up with KK and there was 15$ on the table. So i just all in saying to myself that this 15$ be nice enough and i dont want my KK to be broke by 69o.

Some guy with AA called me, lost my 100$

Im now back to 85$ but this still pisse me off

Galapogos

08-07-2005, 11:48 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mouteut

WHat are the odds of having KK vs AA on a 6 player table

KK will always run into AA on any table. I believe they are somehow drawn to each other. The good news is this works both ways. If you have AA you will run into KK. The bad news is, the KK will always set.

That's how it is as I see it.

a500lbgorilla

08-08-2005, 12:38 AM

#15 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

ep? lp? mp?

early, mid and late position.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

ripjohngotti

08-10-2005, 04:09 AM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

ep? lp? mp?

early, mid and late position.

-'rilla

Yeah i figured that i wasn't thinking about it. Your icon is so fuckin gay. Thanks for the help on SNGs...

30%

Still looking for my royal flush.

08-10-2005, 04:38 AM

#17 (permalink)

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{This post has been removed}

Laeelin

08-10-2005, 04:45 AM

#18 (permalink)

Full House

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Posts: 1,137

I chant 4 words to myself when I get delt jacks...

One
Better
Than
Tens

Q. Is poker Gambling?
A. Do you use correct bankroll management?

jmontis

08-10-2005, 04:56 AM

#19 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

Phil Hellmuth's advice is golden for JJ

"limit, play big pots with it, and smaller ones for NL."

The reason is obvious, at most you might lose a few BB in limit, but you may lose your entire stack in NL to a set or overpair

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

MooMan

08-10-2005, 04:16 PM

#20 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 5

A lot of people talk about how much they love TT, yet hate JJ. The same people insist on playing JJ differently to TT, as if it has any major advantage. How often in a ring game, especially at lower limits, do you win a pot with only pocket jacks?

I limp for a set, fold to overcards, wont bet the flop in early position.

Miffed22001

08-10-2005, 08:50 PM

#21 (permalink)

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Quote:

I limp for a set, fold to overcards, wont bet the flop in early position.

Only in ep i hope. mp maybe. lp no way!

Why is it that a popular saying is 'dont get attached to overcards' or 'know when to drop your aces' yet we give JJ a lot of stick
Shouldnt we be suggesting that we know 'when to fold JJ post flop' and 'know when your jacks' are beaten.

Quote:

As a matter of fact after my Jacks got cracked about 5 times in a row at the Bike...I went to the gift shop and bought a t-shirt that has big black letters on the front that say simply ' I HATE JACKS'....I wear it all the time with pride...or rather disgust.

Jacks blow

Possibly the only time i dont agree with you rippy. That seems such a negative attitude to what is a good/ok hand (im dont want to start an arguement here by the way) Imo you should be able to buy enough pots with JJ, get enough low flops with JJ, or know when the other guy either has a higher pp or has found a better hand.

baudib

08-11-2005, 02:45 AM

#22 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 3,233

I've come to believe that going all-in with Js preflop is the way to go.

Why?

Because I know I have been bluffed off pots when a scare card shows by some clown with nothing or with pocket 10s or worse. I see so many preflop all-ins with JJ vs. underpair and the flop comes A K Q or something and I think "God I would have folded to any show of strength there."

Playing big pots at small stakes.

Miffed22001

08-11-2005, 02:52 AM

#23 (permalink)

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Quote:

I've come to believe that going all-in with Js preflop is the way to go.

that gotta be -ev

baudib

08-11-2005, 11:34 PM

#24 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

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Posts: 3,233

even late in a tourney when the blinds are like 30+ percent of your stack?

Playing big pots at small stakes.

Miffed22001

08-12-2005, 02:27 AM

#25 (permalink)

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mine are going all in first hand if i have JJ

i meant in cash games. In tourney play most people say my push the jacks from mp is fishy.
Still funny when they call with lower pps though
Try to take the marginal outta marginal hand.

Hatefulcow

08-12-2005, 11:51 AM

#26 (permalink)

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

mine are going all in first hand if i have JJ

i meant in cash games. In tourney play most people say my push the jacks from mp is fishy.
Still funny when they call with lower pps though
Try to take the marginal outta marginal hand.

I pushed AI in a NL home game $20 buy in with JJ and luckily I had only bought in for $10 at that point cause I figured I'd be dead money and didn't wanna lose $20. Well suprise suprise someone has QQ beats me, I buy another $10 and play super tight, go on to elevate my chip stack to where I'm one of the final 3 in a 9 handed game and have enough to cash out my $20 buy in and when the game ended I cashed $16 bucks ahead.

I'd have had a profit of about $35 but I lost a huge $75 pot and just played tight again and slowly brought my stack up from around $10.

Oh yea, I hate jacks. I will now never ever raise pre flop with jacks and hope for something on the flop or hope that they are under cards and everyone acts weak.

08-12-2005, 01:39 PM

#27 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatefulcow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

mine are going all in first hand if i have JJ :wink:
i meant in cash games. In tourney play most people say my push the jacks from mp is fishy.
Still funny when they call with lower pps though
Try to take the marginal outta marginal hand. :wink:

hahahahaha fishes

you have to raise when you know you are likely to have the best hand

Miffed22001

08-12-2005, 01:46 PM

#28 (permalink)

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imho people only dislike jacks because they try to do too much with them. If they are treat as a pair of kings on an ace high flop etc then maybe the 'hate them jacks' attitude might be lost.
Not to disagree with some of the more experienced players here of course

08-12-2005, 01:56 PM

#29 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Jacks on a queen high flop are better than kings on an ace high flop since more aces are playable than queens!

Miffed22001

08-12-2005, 01:59 PM

#30 (permalink)

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point taken, but you know what i was trying to elaborate.

a500lbgorilla

08-12-2005, 04:21 PM

#31 (permalink)

JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD

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I have already told you perfect JJ strategy. This thread should be closed.

-'rilla

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

08-12-2005, 05:26 PM

#32 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripjohngotti

ep? lp? mp?

early, mid and late position.

-'rilla

So THAT'S how you play jacks.

ripjohngotti

08-12-2005, 09:29 PM Post subject: Jacks worst ever...

#33 (permalink)

Full House

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Seat 1: JLS88 ($1,420 in chips)
Seat 2: greenlarry ($500 in chips)
Seat 3: LexarPilot ($3,135 in chips)
Seat 4: konrad23 ($5,060 in chips)
Seat 5: redguy x ($1,410 in chips)
Seat 6: wannabeme1 ($1,045 in chips)
Seat 7: VinVega11 ($1,020 in chips)
Seat 8: RIPJohnGotti [JS,JD] ($1,410 in chips)

ANTES/BLINDS
JLS88 posts blind ($15), greenlarry posts blind ($30).

PRE-FLOP
LexarPilot calls $30, konrad23 calls $30, redguy x calls $30, wannabeme1 folds, VinVega11 folds, RIPJohnGotti bets $175, JLS88 folds, greenlarry folds, LexarPilot calls $145, konrad23 folds, redguy x folds.

FLOP [board cards 9H,QH,AH ]
LexarPilot checks, RIPJohnGotti checks.

TURN [board cards 9H,QH,AH,9S ]
LexarPilot bets $60, RIPJohnGotti bets $250, LexarPilot bets $2,900 and is all-in, RIPJohnGotti folds.

SHOWDOWN
LexarPilot wins $3,665.

SUMMARY
Dealer: RIPJohnGotti
Pot: $3,665
JLS88, loses $15
greenlarry, loses $30
LexarPilot, bets $3,135, collects $3,665, net $530
konrad23, loses $30
redguy x, loses $30
wannabeme1, loses $0
VinVega11, loses $0
RIPJohnGotti, loses $425

ALRIGHT this was an SNG luckily with my great SNG skills i still managed to place 4th ahhhhh 8/8 i hit set he hits flush...Flush hits 85% on poker r00m

My boy is telling me to raise hes good as fuck im thinking ill just limp...So i raise etc. I tottaly fuck up the play i didnt bet flop but with 2 overs and not heart in ur hand ok whatever, so on the turn he bets out a little i raise he goes all in i should of just flat called the turn and prayed for a jack or at least a joker...

During that time i was thinking i should just set to jacks the blinds are fuckin low why waste 200 when u know how the newbs in SNGS are they will call with anything a/j k/j q/j etc.

It was probably the right play there to raise with my fuckin jacks , but the turn reraise was dumb on my part.

But the flop was fuckin horrible thats why im MORE TOWARDS thinking i like to limp to set with jacks yeah its a top 4 hand but i mean overs etc why waste chips early on?Blinds are fuckin so small later in tournement ud be a fool to limp with jacks but early. I know im right

30%

Still looking for my royal flush.

Miffed22001

08-12-2005, 09:38 PM

#34 (permalink)

Straight Flush

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fair enough you cant bet that one colour flop, but happens if its rainbow and you make a nice pot or or 3/4 pot bet?
Just remember to put them down if someone is cold calling you imo. Unless you think you can push them off. JJ is worth the raise early on.

Greedo017

08-12-2005, 09:42 PM

#35 (permalink)

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i nearly always limp jacks. i raise sometimes if i want to be tricky.

i almost think raising queens is more trouble than its worth.

i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch

ripjohngotti

08-12-2005, 11:11 PM

#36 (permalink)

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Yeah if it was cordinated i probably woulda bet it was talking over with a friend and i think u gotta raise jacks esp in an SNG u gotta protect that hand, top hand then play the flop esp in late position early probably limp then play accordingly. Its all gravy the next sng i placed second so my stragety is almost perfect..i had k/10 he had q/10 i hit king he hits the jack..

sorta like rips stragety oh well good luck with jacks

30%

Still looking for my royal flush.

08-13-2005, 03:45 AM

#37 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Greedo017

i nearly always limp jacks. i raise sometimes if i want to be tricky.

i almost think raising queens is more trouble than its worth.

Yeah raising with the third best hand is not worth the trouble. I bet you're sitting there waiting for aces and only aces, since when you play kings an ace always flops.

Estrop

08-13-2005, 05:21 AM

#38 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 207

This is how you play JJ:

***** Hand History for Game 2482392410 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Friday, August 05, 14:36:06 EDT 2005
Table Table 54836 (6 max) (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 6
Seat 3: JEstrop ( $77.80 )
Seat 5: eckdarsan218 ( $67.35 )
Seat 6: duckright ( $49.85 )
Seat 4: fourtygordie ( $48.65 )
Seat 2: midget333 ( $17 )
Seat 1: AR6292s ( $28.87 )
JEstrop posts small blind [$0.25].
fourtygordie posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to JEstrop [ Jh Jd ]
eckdarsan218 calls [$0.50].
duckright folds.
AR6292s folds.
midget333 calls [$0.50].
JEstrop raises [$1.75].
fourtygordie calls [$1.50].
eckdarsan218 calls [$1.50].
midget333 calls [$1.50].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, Th, 3s ]
JEstrop bets [$6].
fourtygordie folds.
eckdarsan218 calls [$6].
midget333 folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8d ]
JEstrop bets [$8].
eckdarsan218 calls [$8].
** Dealing River ** [ 3d ]
JEstrop checks.
eckdarsan218 is all-In.
JEstrop calls [$51.35].
JEstrop shows [ Jh, Jd ] two pairs, jacks and threes.
eckdarsan218 doesn't show [ 2s, As ] a pair of threes.
JEstrop wins $136.70 from the main pot with two pairs, jacks and threes.
eckdarsan218 has left the table.

Anyway.. I play JJ exactly like TT. Raise it preflop, call a reraise preflop unless its crazy. If its reraised preflop play only for the set unless I have a read that tells me they have over cards. If I don't run into aggression I'll play it like I play any overpair.. I don't see why people have a problem with JJ, its a big winner for me.

08-13-2005, 08:03 AM

#39 (permalink)

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I play jacks slightly stronger than tens just because of how much money I won playing AGAINST tens. More true in limit than no-limit.

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JJ giving me a bunch of trouble

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