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supa
Old 05-14-2010, 11:19 PM     Post subject: JJ in the BB #1 (permalink)  
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 Another very passive table.Should I have slow played the trips?

PokerStars Game #44091346761: Hold'em No Limit ($0.01/$0.02 USD)
2010/05/14 13:38:07 PT [2010/05/14 16:38:07 ET]
Table 'Helene' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: waaaaaaaa ($2.97 in chips)
Seat 2: Steveyy ($0.98 in chips)
Seat 3: edgard_04 ($0.80 in chips)
Seat 4: max_e_cash69 ($6.03 in chips)
Seat 5: JCanz ($4.98 in chips)
Seat 6: bouf1000 ($1.23 in chips)
Seat 7: SUPAHAOLE666 ($5.42 in chips)
Seat 8: verfagyaszto ($6.93 in chips)
Seat 9: esox_l ($5.01 in chips)
bouf1000: posts small blind $0.01
SUPAHAOLE666: posts big blind $0.02
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to SUPAHAOLE666 [Jc Jd]
verfagyaszto: folds
esox_l: folds
waaaaaaaa: folds
Steveyy: folds
edgard_04: raises $0.02 to $0.04
max_e_cash69: calls $0.04
JCanz: folds
bouf1000: folds
SUPAHAOLE666: raises $0.10 to $0.14
edgard_04: calls $0.10
max_e_cash69: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [Jh 4s 2s]
SUPAHAOLE666: bets $0.18
edgard_04: folds
max_e_cash69: folds
Uncalled bet ($0.18) returned to SUPAHAOLE666
SUPAHAOLE666 collected $0.43 from pot
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dneureiter
Old 05-14-2010, 11:44 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 You shouldn't have slowplayed because of the table but rather the flop texture.. not much they could have on J42r!

There are few draws (like 53s maybe). And you pretty much have the deck crippled for top pair. You can afford to give them a free card since most of their range won't catch up to your trips.

Otherwise your bet sizing was decent. just under half pot looks like a "I'll give up if this cbet won't work" size. But your opponents aren't thinking about that at 2nl and above all the flop is just too dry.
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supa
Old 05-14-2010, 11:48 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Thanks,I definatly would have slow played that board in a live game but seem to try to just take down pots after the flop online.Gotta cork for that leak.actually gonna need a few corks.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-15-2010, 12:18 AM #4 (permalink)  
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What did you expect them to call with lol??
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supa
Old 05-15-2010, 12:42 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Didn't expect a call.Decent size pot.Cork pleeze.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-15-2010, 03:05 AM #6 (permalink)  
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If you were fine with winning just in the pot then why are you even thinking about slowplaying and posting this hand here.
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Hoopy
Old 05-15-2010, 11:53 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Bigger 3 bet pre flop. Any reads/stats on opponents?

Why is slow playing very bad on this flop + in general at micros?

You also need to be betting that flop much bigger - $0.40 seems good.
 
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littleogre
Old 05-15-2010, 05:11 PM #8 (permalink)  

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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoopyDude View Post
Bigger 3 bet pre flop. Any reads/stats on opponents?

Why is slow playing very bad on this flop + in general at micros?

You also need to be betting that flop much bigger - $0.40 seems good.
Well slow playing works best against lags or players who are generally aggro. Value betting works best against players who call to much. Where do you think most micro players fall? On this flop you get called by lots of jacks and any str8 or flush draw. You will also get called by under pairs a lot.
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Hoopy
Old 05-16-2010, 04:33 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littleogre View Post
Well slow playing works best against lags or players who are generally aggro. Value betting works best against players who call to much. Where do you think most micro players fall? On this flop you get called by lots of jacks and any str8 or flush draw. You will also get called by under pairs a lot.
I was asking the question for supahaole to answer since he wanted to know if slow playing was a good idea.
 
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supa
Old 05-16-2010, 06:28 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by HoopyDude View Post
I was asking the question for supahaole to answer since he wanted to know if slow playing was a good idea.
Ok guys.I think I blew it with this post.I shouldn't have asked about the slowplay because in general I think we all agree I wasn't getting any action off that flop.Just wanted to know who would play this hand differently and how.I'm brand new to this kind of forum thing(I don't even have a facebook) so I might post some stupid hands and ask some stupid questions.I'm not good at figuring out the stats so I'll probably be posting some questions about those kinda things later.Thanks for all your help.
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Muzzard
Old 05-16-2010, 09:10 PM #11 (permalink)  
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I would just check the flop. Sure, at micros we don't generally 'slow play' but given this board texture and pre it's highly unlikely we're goign to get much action if any.

QQ+ can mainly be discounted pre, there is only 1 jack left, so the probability of anyone having Jx is highly unlikely and the only other hands that we can really get any action off are 44/22 and 53s/53o is again unlikely because of pre.

Sure we might get one street of value from 55-TT if he lol puts us on AK, but I doubt we can really get more than 1 street, unless he hits a two outer on the turn. I'd just give a free card to those 55-TT hands that may fold to a flop cbet but would cream there pants if they turned a set and also to those Q-Ax hands that might catch TP on the turn.
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littleogre
Old 05-17-2010, 12:41 PM #12 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by HoopyDude View Post
I was asking the question for supahaole to answer since he wanted to know if slow playing was a good idea.
Sorry my bad.
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Rambam77
Old 05-17-2010, 06:46 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Muzzard View Post
I would just check the flop. Sure, at micros we don't generally 'slow play' but given this board texture and pre it's highly unlikely we're goign to get much action if any.

QQ+ can mainly be discounted pre, there is only 1 jack left, so the probability of anyone having Jx is highly unlikely and the only other hands that we can really get any action off are 44/22 and 53s/53o is again unlikely because of pre.

Sure we might get one street of value from 55-TT if he lol puts us on AK, but I doubt we can really get more than 1 street, unless he hits a two outer on the turn. I'd just give a free card to those 55-TT hands that may fold to a flop cbet but would cream there pants if they turned a set and also to those Q-Ax hands that might catch TP on the turn.
Hello I am new to the game of poker. I am wondering why you would discount QQ+pf. He said the table had been pretty passive anxious have come across plenty of ppl who play those hands with a min raise or limps.
Thank you for any comments.
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Horace
Old 05-18-2010, 05:42 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambam77 View Post
Hello I am new to the game of poker. I am wondering why you would discount QQ+pf. He said the table had been pretty passive anxious have come across plenty of ppl who play those hands with a min raise or limps.
Thank you for any comments.
I guess the way passive players generally play in micro, they tend to over bet higher pp's?
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Big_Lebowski33
Old 05-18-2010, 11:27 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 I think betting this flop is fine. At the .01/.02 level you will get alot of garbage hands to call/or maybe raise you. Most of the advice I have seen for beginners playing this level is bet your big hands for value and never bluff. This is a big hand so bet it and hope you get someone to give away some money.
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Imthenewfish
Old 05-19-2010, 05:33 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_Lebowski33 View Post
I think betting this flop is fine. At the .01/.02 level you will get alot of garbage hands to call/or maybe raise you. Most of the advice I have seen for beginners playing this level is bet your big hands for value and never bluff. This is a big hand so bet it and hope you get someone to give away some money.
There are times to bet when you don't think you have the best hand at 2nl.
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shallam
Old 05-19-2010, 02:04 PM #17 (permalink)  
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You have the nuts. Cool. This is a very dry board so you are unlikely to extract much additional value.


Hands that might call a modest bet include pairs, weird straight draws, a set, two pair, overcards. None of these hands are both likely and strong. One hand that you do have worry about a little is an A-rag or other gutshot draw. I'd hate to give a free card to that hand.


There is a fundamental conflict here. On the one hand your hand is very strong, one strong enough to support a little slow play trickery. OTOH, opps at this level play waaaaay to loose.




---Option #1---
My preference would be to make a modest sized bet -- one-half to one third of the pot. At these limits you will sometimes get a call or even a raise from someone with no hand at all.


---Option #2---
Make a VERY small bet, the minimum or close to it. Hope to get a raise or at least a call. You will find that this small bet is simply too tempting for your opps to fold to. Be aware that you might be giving A-rag gutshot opp close to the right odds to call.




---don't check or power bet---

I don't like checking at all. It's wrong to check to player who play to loose. Opps at this level play waaay too loose.


I also don't like going all in or making an oversized bet. I WANT to get called here.


This is a decent sized pot and while it would have been nice to extract more value, given the nature of the board it's no surprise that you weren't able to.
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Big_Lebowski33
Old 05-20-2010, 04:49 AM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imthenewfish View Post
There are times to bet when you don't think you have the best hand at 2nl.


Yeah I understand and agree with that. I'm just sayin don't make such big bluffs to where your risking a huge portion of your stack because you will get called sometimes with bottom pair or worse.
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supa
Old 05-20-2010, 05:17 AM #19 (permalink)  
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littleogre
Old 05-20-2010, 08:05 AM #20 (permalink)  

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 i think people in this thread or at least some are really underestimating the crap that 2nl folks will call with on this flop.
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