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philly and the phanatics
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07-30-2009, 06:28 PM
Post subject: j10suited, hit top pair :-/....
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP ($2.97)
CO ($0.42)
Button ($5.39)
SB ($0.94)
BB ($1.18)
Hero (UTG) ($2.47)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with J , 10
Hero calls $0.02, MP bets $0.04, 3 folds, BB calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02
Flop: ($0.13) J , 8 , 9 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.10, MP raises to $0.20, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10
Turn: ($0.53) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $0.34, Hero folds
Total pot: $0.53 | Rake: $0
villain is 33/2/33(afq)....should i have folded to the flop 3bet? or should i lead out on the turn maybe?
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only_bridge
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Linköping, Sweden
Posts: 100
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That is a tight fold.
I would probably have check-raised the flop.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Uhh. Hero's calling .34 to win .87 with 13 outs.
Seems like a call to me, especially considering Hero has a tiny amount of value in a showdown.
Blocking bet if you miss, Valuebet if you hit (Consider a value checkraise if you think that villain will go for 3 streets of value.)
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Weird spot because you limp/called UTG. So I would never be in this situation so I don't feel my comments would help. Just don't open limp and this hand isn't that hard to play. Raise or fold.
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Uhh. Hero's calling .34 to win .87 with 13 outs.
Seems like a call to me, especially considering Hero has a tiny amount of value in a showdown.
Blocking bet if you miss, Valuebet if you hit (Consider a value checkraise if you think that villain will go for 3 streets of value.)
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13 outs??? a 10 puts 4 cards to a straight on the board, so i have 10 outs, which is 21% on the turn....i have 28% pot odds....if the queen or 7 fall i doubt i get too much more out of him cause theres still 4 to straight out there, and if another jack hits he could already have a straight, q10 or 10 7s easily being in his range. So i am not sure about adding much for implied odds, i still feel it is a fold...
and if he already has a straight i am crushed, he could have tptk or an overpair...idk
i do agree i should fold pre...idk about raising pre b/c i am utg...but as played i thought it was a fold and am still pretty sure i did the right thing.
One question though ragnar, what does the "hero has a tiny amount of value in a showdown" mean i see stuff like that a lot here and i am not 100 percent sure on the meaning
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ragnar4
Uhh. Hero's calling .34 to win .87 with 13 outs.
Seems like a call to me, especially considering Hero has a tiny amount of value in a showdown.
Blocking bet if you miss, Valuebet if you hit (Consider a value checkraise if you think that villain will go for 3 streets of value.)
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13 outs??? a 10 puts 4 cards to a straight on the board, so i have 10 outs, which is 21% on the turn....i have 28% pot odds....if the queen or 7 fall i doubt i get too much more out of him cause theres still 4 to straight out there, and if another jack hits he could already have a straight, q10 or 10 7s easily being in his range. So i am not sure about adding much for implied odds, i still feel it is a fold...
and if he already has a straight i am crushed, he could have tptk or an overpair...idk
i do agree i should fold pre...idk about raising pre b/c i am utg...but as played i thought it was a fold and am still pretty sure i did the right thing.
One question though ragnar, what does the "hero has a tiny amount of value in a showdown" mean i see stuff like that a lot here and i am not 100 percent sure on the meaning |
So you're telling me MP is capable of minraising QT and T7, and 57 preflop?
As for value at showdown, It's a concept I still struggle with, but basically it goes like this, when you have something like top pair weak kicker, you often will want to try to get to showdown by exercising pot-controll techniques because your hand stands to win more than its fair share of the time, but its not worth comitting all your stack to.
If your opponent "lawl all you can eat" shoves on you after you check the river when you blank, you can fold, but if he bets some wierd amount like 1/2 pot you could probably consider a call unless the river card is stupid scary.
You could also consider a blocking type bet, that would be less than 1/2 the pot. I would almost wonder if you could get away with 1/3rd pot at the river.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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please raise PF
no way we have 13 clean outs Ragnar
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Stacks
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
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Even though preflop is pretty bad, postflop is fine. Betting the flop with TP + oesd in a minraised pot is fine. When villain minraises flop, you are getting like 4.3:1 immediate pot odds to call. And on the turn you no longer have those pot odds, and your implied odds pretty much suck. So it's fine.
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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fold preflop. with the exception of the blinds we're going to be OOP for the rest of the hand
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AFchung
raise preflop. with the exception of the blinds we're going to be OOP for the rest of the hand
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fyp
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dmoney38
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Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 9
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Fold pre.
Aside from that i've understood showdown value to mean you could win should the hand go to showdown. EX: if you hold bottom pair in a heads up pot that is checked down to river you don't need to attempt a steal because you have show down value.
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bigspenda73
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pwnsylvania
Posts: 7,546
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anyone who folds PF should just quit poker
wtf kind of enjoyment can you get folding JTs
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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spenda, what are your typical hud stats at 5nl?
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Parasurama
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: DMT
Posts: 820
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you guys realize this is 6m right? Baby jesus cries when you open fold JTs in 6m
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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at the time a few people were sitting out, so it was full ring, but i guess i should have adjusted to the amount of people at the table and def raised.
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