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It's not necessarily bad play if you get stacked with...

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drtofu66

03-13-2006, 07:32 PM Post subject: It's not necessarily bad play if you get stacked with...

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 595

Being the noob NL player, I'm just wondering where the line between weak tightness and bold aggressive play that will pay off in the long run is. I'm not talking about bad beats where all the money went with you ahead and losing on the turn or river card.

I would guess it sucks but can be judged good play if you get stacked with (even if you pushed when you were behind):

-a full house to a bigger boat or quads
-an A high flush (or low straight flush) to a higher straight flush
-a set to a higher set

Things I'm not so sure about:

-3 of a kind on a paired board to a FH or getting outkicked (I'm guessing you should not be the one pushing the betting here-- go for the cheap showdown)
-T, J, Q high flush to a higher flush (again, you probably shouldn't be pushing the betting here)
-a set to straight
-a set to flush on a 3 suited board
-top 2 pair to a set
-top and bottom 2 pair to a set or top 2 pair

Don't get stacked with:

-TPTK to 2 pair, set, trips... just don't bet your stack with TPTK

Or, is this a bad way to think about it?

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Blinky

03-13-2006, 08:17 PM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: nutpeddlers anonymous

Posts: 459

It's hard to really assess getting stacked on hands so explicitly.

However for your examples, set on set is very rare - rare enough that it's not really worth worrying about. SF vs SF is also very rare and I probably go broke in a nutflush vs SF situation.

However, boat vs boat (ie, fukk house) can sometimes be dropped moderately easily depending on the situation. If you have the low end of a double board pair or if your boat is counterfeited it may be possible to get away from it.

In other cases, hand strength is really relative. The strength of a TJQ-high flush depends on the opp and the way the pot played out - raised pot? Does opp like to limp suited aces? etc etc etc.

have sets cracked by straights or flushes - again depends on how the hand played out. Was there a 2-flush flop where you let the flush draw for cheap?

When playing trips (ie, you hit the pair on the board), the strength of the trip matters. If you've limped with A3s looking to hit a nutflush draw and you've flopped trip A, you have to proceed with reasonable caution. You likely have the best hand but if you're up against another A, you're outkicked.

OTOH if you have a BB special of T3o and flop brings paired 3s, it's more likely that you're goot.

Sometimes, and again depending on your opp, TPTK can be goot. It's not a hand that I'd be comfortable playing for stacks with, but against the right opp I would do it.

For instance, a few days ago at 25NL, I flopped a K on AKo which I had raised preflop. My flop bet was flat called by an opp who I knew would pretty much call down bets with mid pair or better, and pretty much couldn't drop TP.

I pushed on the turn which was an overbet (a bit more than $15 into a $10 pot) - not something I would generally do with TPTK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rondavu

We will not support your pocket pair aggression.

drtofu66

03-13-2006, 08:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 595

Ah, yes. "It depends"

Points well taken. As a beginner, I just have to wonder if something truly is a bad beat or if I was stupid.

My post in "push or slow down" of being in the SB with 33 (after a minraise UTG with 5 callers) on a rainbow board of 357 and losing a stack to the BB who had 46 and flopped the straight is an example. I could have been behind to a bigger set and it was the BB who was betting/raising; he could have had any two cards (including 35s, 57s, 46s, 55, 77, 66, 88, 99, TT). I just wondered if this was horrible play on my part for pushing the turn after he showed so much strength on the flop and turn.

Some hands, reads notwithstanding, you just need to say, "Well, couldn't have seen that one coming" and move on instead of kicking yourself for not seeing that a hand had you beat. I'm in a terrible mindset of "OMG, the board's paired and someone's betting into my nut flush/straight-- they must have a full house!" and just calling small bets instead of punishing some donk with trips (that bad beat I posted yesterday was the beginning of a terrible poker day. Whether the day was due to bad luck or bad play I can't tell-- I've lost perspective). And not like I'm playing at tables where Lukie, Fnord, Aokrongly or any of the resident experts are playing at (unless they've decided that they really like <10NL or Party's 25NL instead of making money like they have been doing for years).

I'm just looking for ways to shake myself out of playing tentatively.

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