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Insights into why they play like they do...

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Anosmic

04-15-2006, 06:14 PM Post subject: Insights into why they play like they do...

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

Sat down at a $5nl table this afternoon and this was the first hand.
MP2 has the second most hands in my db after me.
I make his VPIP >50% but he's not been that bad.

(Name has been changed to increase mocking)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($4.50)
Hero ($5)
MP2 =(TiltyMcTilterson)/ ($5.87)
MP3 ($12.96)
CO ($8.97)
Button ($6.54)
SB ($3.54)
BB ($4.35)
UTG ($4.53)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K

, Q

. Hero posts a blind of $0.04. SB posts a blind of $0.02.
2 folds, Hero (poster) checks, TiltyMcTilterson</ raises to $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12, 2 folds, SB (poster) calls $0.10, BB calls $0.08, Hero folds.

Flop: ($0.52) 5

, 4

, T

(4 players)
SB bets $0.04, BB raises to $0.08, TiltyMcTilterson raises to $0.5, MP3 folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.42.

Turn: ($1.56) 6

(2 players)
BB bets $0.04, TiltyMcTilterson raises to $1, BB raises to $1.96, TiltyMcTilterson calls $0.96.

River: ($5.48) T

(2 players)
BB bets $0.04, TiltyMcTilterson calls $0.04.

Final Pot: $5.56

Results in white below:
BB has 6h Th (full house, tens full of sixes).
TiltyMcTilterson has Ah Ad (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: BB wins $5.56.

Tilty then went on a lovely rant for about 10 minutes before disappearing.
His gripe was, in the main, that the player hadn't folded the turn (which just made it all the more comical, as no one seemed to notice either).

Now obviously playing T6s against a largish pf raise is stoopid. But then calling the pot-sized raise on the flop; that's more understandable. Getting away from top pair is not an uncommon problem.

What makes me laugh is that Tilty didn't seem to notice AT ALL that he got re-raised on the turn by someone who was previously making minbets.

I'm not sure you can call this a suck-out, or even a bad beat. He reacted as though the river beat him.

But the statement I reacted most to was:
"but calling a dollar raise when I represented A's the whole time. f.ucking stupid"

Firstly, it seems he hasn't noticed he was beaten by a boat. Nor that he was re-raised. But the "represented As the whole time"? No one seemed to question him either.
Does he really think that 3xBB pf raise and a pot-sized bet (after a bet and re-raise) represents AA?

Think I'll file that under "Big Fat Stonking Tell".

Now this might be the Cod calling the Herring scaley... but wow, that sort of mouthing off really reveals their thinking. Must pay more attention to these outbursts!

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

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jmontis

04-16-2006, 05:40 AM

#2 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 1,296

edit: why are you posting this

take your ego out of the equation and judge the situation dispassionately

Anosmic

04-16-2006, 11:13 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmontis

edit: why are you posting this

What, I have to have a reason?

Essentially, if one believes what the guy is saying and I would find it unlikely that this is 'acting', then he's giving some information about the way he thinks.
It's not how I think, so it's valuable to me. I want to try to "get inside the heads" of other players; both those better than me and those at my level.

My reason for posting is to find out how people here react to this. Is this familiar stuff? That even 3xbb raise means "I have a top hand". That a pot-sized bet means "I have a huge overpair".

I mean, if this is so it would explain why people limp AQ, AJ. They see AA,KK as raisers and AQ, AJ as hands to call raises with.
(Actually the T6s shows that anything can be to call with).

Are the minbets symptomatic of believing that a pot-sized bet is for "really good hands"? So TP warrants a minbet?

There's such a variety in play at this level that maybe it doesn't help me to understand my opponents in general; but as I say this guy is number 2 in my database after me. Of 3k hands I've played 10% with him at my table. If I can learn more about his thinking surely that's to my benefit and I'm wondering what can I learn from his reactions here?

Again, one may say that at my level it's not important to get reads on people; the cards will do the work (and they have so far) but eventually I want to be able to take this sort of information and use it to be able to see through the guy. I just feel it's a learning opportunity as much as a hand that I myself am involved in: I just want to make sure I learn the right things.

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

biondino

04-16-2006, 06:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

It is extremely useful to know that he is an abc player, table coach, and is frustrated by the donkish play of those around him. I reckon you can further this - if you're always playing against him, befriend him, talk tactics with him - flatter his ego and ask him questions. See what else he'll tell you - you never know, others may volunteer info as well!

Jiggus

04-17-2006, 07:34 AM

#5 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

I normally have chat disabled and my own ability to chat at Paradise has been taken away from me a LONG time ago, but every once in a while I enable it after a particularly noteworthy play, just to see what, if anything, players will say.

The last time I did it, I saw someone write, "It's courtesy, you know, to check on the river when someone has gone all in."

I thought it quite hilarious. Dude was bitter at someone who had raised the river after some moron with a small stack had pushed all in on the turn. "It's poker, not croquet," thought I.

Anosmic

04-17-2006, 12:36 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggus

I thought it quite hilarious. Dude was bitter at someone who had raised the river after some moron with a small stack had pushed all in on the turn. "It's poker, not croquet," thought I.

LOL!

That said, one thing that has bugged me is when, in tournament play, the SS has pushed all-in and I've called and so has someone else.
Then after a couple of checks they push and I've had to fold. Then they've flipped over the cards and sure enough they were bluffing and lose the the SS I would have beaten.

Especially around the Bubble it seems some people don't realise that getting rid of 4th place benefits us all... I always enjoy grinding those guys down when they've made me work an extra half an hour for it, for no reason.

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

Jiggus

04-18-2006, 05:45 AM

#7 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

There's a quote somewhere about the obligation one has to take money from morons. We play to make money, right?

Halv

04-18-2006, 12:43 PM

#8 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anosmic

Especially around the Bubble it seems some people don't realise that getting rid of 4th place benefits us all...

That is not always true. If the other players are too tight and just waiting for someone to bust out, then I might want to keep the shortie alive (which means folding to his pushes, NOT calling with crap to double him up).

If you tend to end up in these situations alot you might be calling his pushes to often. If you have a hand that is strong enough to take on the short stack, raise it up to keep the other players out.

First music vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFerARdGW04
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Miffed22001

04-18-2006, 02:05 PM

#9 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

jiggus wats ur screen name at paradise?

Jiggus

04-20-2006, 07:13 AM

#10 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

That would be Jiggus. You think that Jiggus is my real name!!?

And my kids are named Bloated and Flatuella.

Anosmic

04-20-2006, 08:25 AM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 999

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiggus

That would be Jiggus. You think that Jiggus is my real name!!?

And my kids are named Bloated and Flatuella.

But Flatuella is a girls name!

Blah blah Op Blah blah

Faith in Jesus Christ is +EV. That is all.

Jiggus

04-21-2006, 05:54 AM

#12 (permalink)

Guest

Posts: n/a

Yes, we're expecting a girl this August.

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