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steelwheel
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12-28-2004, 11:08 AM
Post subject: Implied Odds hands in NL
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
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Ive heard some of my friends new to poker describe NLH as a game of implied odds (they dont really know what implied odds are, they just want to sound smart), but while that may be an over simplification of NLH, Ive noticed that implied odds are what I base LOTS of the cards I play preflop.
I love to limp with with huge implied odds, no sorry not huge but MASSIVE implied odds!
Small suited connectors and baby pocket pairs are damn great hands I love to get when theres massive stacks at the table.
An example...
im in a $5/$10 NLH game and my pocket cards are 45s. Now lets say that everyone at the table has somewhere around $200 in front of them. Someone raises it to $20, I cant play that 45s sadly as I can only win about the $200, as thats the most that anyone at the table has.
So my implied odds are 10-1. Not the best.
BUT. Same blinds, except the stacks at the table are in the sizes of thousands. The amount I can win lets me play my less than premium hand, because if I flop a straight, trips, or a full or some monster, then if someone has KK or AA the Im gonna take all their money.
BUT ONTO THE ACTUAL POINT OF THIS THREAD...
Ive been reading the group 6 hand rankings on FTR. It says this...
"Limping in with big implied odds. There are still some good hands yet to be played, and these have huge upside potential if you hit. Here are my Group 6 hands:
Group 6: 66 55 44 33 22 A5s A6s A4s A3s A2s"
OK. As I said I love baby pairs in NL because of the implied odds if I get my set on the flop. But a couple questions...
Where are my small suited connecting cards?
Are there any other less than premium hands that should be in an implied odds list?
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steelwheel
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
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also, has the starting hand charts on FTR been changed around lately, because they seem way different then from when I last looked at them.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Those are also hands that *may* still be good unimproved or slightly improved (aces or a low pair). Any hand that is at all coordinated is an implied odds hand. So you've basically named them all, suited connectors (gap connectors) and Axs and low pairs.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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btw.. If the money is really "deep", as they say it might be good to limp ANY TWO.. IF your on the buttom or close to it.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Nah, two pair and trips lose too easily if it's a limp pot. I wouldn't suggest it. Unless you know what you're doing.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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hmm maybe! I have won quite a lot doing it at the really loose low limit tabels at primapoker. (might be luck) They will pay you off all the time, dont slowplay anything though...
Theese guys really sucks and the stacks are like 200 times the BB.
So only limp stuff with str/flush/set "chans"?
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steelwheel
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Joke
So only limp stuff with str/flush/set "chans"?
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yea if Im getting good implied odds Ill limp in with stuff like Axs, small suited connectors (1 gappers too), a baby pair (baby pairs rule in NL).
I wont take any two crap cards to the flop like 3-7o
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There is more to poker than life
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Joke
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 131
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thx for advice ... I will make some experiments and post some histories and uill se xD
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SteveO
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 755
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Small suited cards are absolute garbage. They will lose 50 times for every time you cripple a big stack with them. They don't make a strong flush, they are a baby str8, they are dominated by any overpair andyour kicker sucks if you happen to connect w/ the flop. Unless you flop the absolute nuts with the low suited connectors they are very dangerous.
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Send lawyers, guns and money - the sh*t has hit the fan!
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mjeffr0
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 20
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i dont limp with low suited connectors but i will def. play them from small or bb, and when you flop a straight flush against k high and ace high flushes it becomes a very provitable hand, $120 worth to be exact, at a .5/1 nl table.
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steelwheel
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
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Quote:
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and when you flop a straight flush
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the odds of flopping a straight flush for 45s is 19599 to 1. so its not going to happen very often.
edited... actually I got those odds wrong, for 45s its 4899 to 1
flopping a striaght flush with AKs is 19599 to 1
edited again, misread above post
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There is more to poker than life
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twosevoff
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 526
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SteveO
Small suited cards are absolute garbage. They will lose 50 times for every time you cripple a big stack with them. They don't make a strong flush, they are a baby str8, they are dominated by any overpair andyour kicker sucks if you happen to connect w/ the flop. Unless you flop the absolute nuts with the low suited connectors they are very dangerous. |
I would rather call a raise with 5-6 suited than with AJo, KQo, KJo, QJo, etc. With 5-6, you can make many straights, flop a flush, flop a straight, flush, or multi-draw/pair and a draw (and if you're HU and drawing at a flush, you usually don't have to worry about being up against a higher flush draw), and flop sneaky two pair or trips. With the other big offsuit connectors, you can flop a top pair hand that's going to get you into trouble more often than it's worth, a broadway straight, or obvious two pair or trips. The low suited connectors and 1 gappers give you good implied odds, whereas the offsuit "trouble hands" are dangerous due to reverse implied odds.
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steelwheel
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 162
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by twosevoff
I would rather call a raise with 5-6 suited than with AJo, KQo, KJo, QJo, etc. With 5-6, you can make many straights, flop a flush, flop a straight, flush, or multi-draw/pair and a draw (and if you're HU and drawing at a flush, you usually don't have to worry about being up against a higher flush draw), and flop sneaky two pair or trips. With the other big offsuit connectors, you can flop a top pair hand that's going to get you into trouble more often than it's worth, a broadway straight, or obvious two pair or trips. The low suited connectors and 1 gappers give you good implied odds, whereas the offsuit "trouble hands" are dangerous due to reverse implied odds.
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same here
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