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andy609
Old 08-14-2006, 01:22 AM     Post subject: I'm not gonna be able to sleep if I don't post this #1 (permalink)  
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Villian is usually passive preflop.

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+2 ($10.46)
MP1 ($4.86)
MP2 ($20.83)
Hero ($10.65)
CO ($4.10)
Button ($1.95)
SB ($1.90)
BB ($9.45)
UTG ($2.80)
UTG+1 ($9.13)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K, K.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.5, 4 folds, UTG+2 raises to $1.65, Hero raises to $5, UTG+2 goes all-in for $10.46, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $11.30
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Dislexsik
Old 08-14-2006, 01:34 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Wtf never fold KK preflop on those stakes.
 
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bearcats05
Old 08-14-2006, 01:34 AM #3 (permalink)  
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at 10nl i dont think you should really ever fold KK preflop especially if you already have half your stack in.

you say he is usually passive pf? how many hands have you even seen him play?
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andy609
Old 08-14-2006, 01:45 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bearcats05
you say he is usually passive pf? how many hands have you even seen him play?
Ugh. I should have looked at that. 14. Forget it. Horrible laydown.
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IHodge7
Old 08-14-2006, 01:52 AM #5 (permalink)  
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just tell me why you would fold KK preflop?
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andy609
Old 08-14-2006, 02:01 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHodge7
just tell me why you would fold KK preflop?
Because he limp-reraised and then reraised again.
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yorib
Old 08-14-2006, 02:11 AM #7 (permalink)  
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The fold was horrible, but you should have just called the reraise and played as if he had AA. (i.e. get a K get his stack, otherwise just fold).
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andy609
Old 08-14-2006, 02:16 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yorib
The fold was horrible, but you should have just called the reraise and played as if he had AA. (i.e. get a K get his stack, otherwise just fold).
So you think he had AA, but I still should have called? Just want to get it straight.
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Halv
Old 08-14-2006, 02:38 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 14 hands at 10NL, villain's going to have to take a screenshot of his AA and send it to me before I fold KK preflop.

I have folded KK preflop once, this was last week at 100NL versus a known rock. I still am not sure I made the right decision.

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theDEEPdish
Old 08-14-2006, 02:45 AM #10 (permalink)  
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your almost getting the right price even if he showed you aces


terrible
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 08-14-2006, 03:05 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 Buddy, even if he did have aces, you have 3 to 1 odds.... AA vs KK is only a 4 to 1 dog. So you have to know FOR SURE he has AA to fold this. I think he has AA but i don't think anyone could say for sure.
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jackvance
Old 08-14-2006, 03:26 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theDEEPdish
your almost getting the right price even if he showed you aces
Because of this your fold is exceptionally bad..
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Renton
Old 08-14-2006, 03:38 AM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraggingBastard
***** Hand History for Game 4936930121 *****
$400 NL Texas Hold'em - Saturday, August 12, 23:32:53 ET 2006
Table Monster #1277697 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 6 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 7: ms_Ebru ( $1390.74 )
Seat 6: Beelzeboz0 ( $449.90 )
Seat 8: DestinyAwaits ( $337.51 )
Seat 4: onlynamerica ( $431.50 )
Seat 3: leeming131 ( $345.40 )
Seat 5: jschmoe ( $359 )
Seat 10: drisk7469 ( $254.91 )
Seat 2: osloe ( $503.65 )
Seat 1: K_X_K ( $37.10 )
Seat 9: Hydro ( $234.80 )
ms_Ebru posts small blind [$2].
DestinyAwaits posts big blind [$4].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Beelzeboz0 [ Kc Ks ]
>You have options at Regular(794823) Table #6 Table!.
Hydro calls [$4].
drisk7469 calls [$4].
K_X_K calls [$4].
osloe folds.
leeming131 raises [$22].
onlynamerica folds.
jschmoe folds.
>You have options at Monster #1277082 (No DP) Table!.
Beelzeboz0 raises [$66].
ms_Ebru folds.
DestinyAwaits folds.
Hydro folds.
drisk7469 folds.
K_X_K folds.
leeming131 is all-In.
Beelzeboz0 folds.
leeming131 shows [ As, Ac ] a pair of aces.
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andy609
Old 08-14-2006, 04:01 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Buddy, even if he did have aces, you have 3 to 1 odds.... AA vs KK is only a 4 to 1 dog. So you have to know FOR SURE he has AA to fold this. I think he has AA but i don't think anyone could say for sure.
I have to contribute $5.46 to what will be a pot of $21.07, 25.9%.
The chance of spiking a king assuming he has aces is 1-(46/48*45/47*44/46*43/45*42/44), 20.0%, which also includes the times he gets an ace and I get a king. So I don't think calling is as great as you say even if we know he has aces.
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bearcats05
Old 08-14-2006, 04:09 AM #15 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy609
Quote:
Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan
Buddy, even if he did have aces, you have 3 to 1 odds.... AA vs KK is only a 4 to 1 dog. So you have to know FOR SURE he has AA to fold this. I think he has AA but i don't think anyone could say for sure.
I have to contribute $5.46 to what will be a pot of $21.07, 25.9%.
The chance of spiking a king assuming he has aces is 1-(46/48*45/47*44/46*43/45*42/44), 20.0%, which also includes the times he gets an ace and I get a king. So I don't think calling is as great as you say even if we know he has aces.
youve already lost that 5.50 so forget about that. your getting 4 to 1 on this call. so if he has aces you have odds for this call. but he doesnt always have aces here either...
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LimpinAintEZ
Old 08-14-2006, 04:19 AM     Post subject: Re: I'm not gonna be able to sleep if I don't post this #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy609
Hero is MP3 with K, K.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.5, 4 folds, UTG+2 raises to $1.65, Hero raises to $5, UTG+2 goes all-in for $10.46, Hero folds.
I would say the only thing is you commited a lot in your reraise to not call the rest - I think if you laid it down, It means you are reading your opponents and putting them on hands, which is a very good thing to be doing at 10NL - This reaks of AA, but i probably still call/go AI with my Kings there - Not sure why everyone is saying terrible fold - seems a tad harsh...if you put the guy on aces, go with your read - don't just go blindly in saying "I have KK and i'm going all the way with it"

bad play? Maybe - Good thought process? Definitely - good job
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givememyleg
Old 08-14-2006, 04:20 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BraggingBastard
***** Hand History for Game 4936930121 *****
$400 NL Texas Hold'em
leeming131 shows [ As, Ac ] a pair of aces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andy609
No-Limit Hold'em, $.10 BB
Now, this isn't as bad of a laydown as everyone is saying based on the cards. Based on his read and villians actions, he has AA. I don't think people should be saying "wtf don't fold KK preflop ever at these stakes." I don't necessarily disgaree with this, but what makes this a bad fold is the fact that you have 4:1 on your money and pretty much the correct price even if it is AA. Add in some of the weird stuff you will see at these limits and it makes this a +ev call. I think a better way to put it is if you put half your stack in pf with KK, just don't fold. This is a clear call, but I'd be suprised if villian didn't have AA.

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Renton
Old 08-14-2006, 04:27 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 Even with my HH I would have called if he weren't a 12/2 nit.
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TerryToma
Old 08-14-2006, 05:02 AM #19 (permalink)  
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You have to go all in after 1/2 stack in already pf. Yeah you might not have pot odds to call v AA, but when you include other hands in his range it makes it a call.

If you are really worried about AA after the limp/rr then just call the raise and reevaluate after a flop.
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jyms
Old 08-14-2006, 12:52 PM #20 (permalink)  
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 @ $10NL I can honestly say that an all-in is just as possibly AK or JJ as it is AA. Never fold KK to an all-in at these stakes unless you have tracker and know 100% for sure that this is AA. The fact that you posted this hand tells me that you weren't 100% and that means never fold KK at 10NL. I have seen all-ins preflop even at 25NL that are AK and even QQ.
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Rondavu
Old 08-14-2006, 01:02 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Lol. Thread of the day. Sick laydown guy. I mean I want to puke.
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Miffed22001
Old 08-14-2006, 01:12 PM #22 (permalink)  
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 plz fold KK preflop like this

STAGE #418222677: HOLDEM NO LIMIT $0.50 - 21:27:24 (ET)
Table: DAYTONA BEACH (Real Money) Seat #9 is the dealer
Seat 9 - ZIM_BOB ($98.50 in chips)
Seat 1 - POKERNTHEEYE ($17 in chips)
Seat 2 - 2OFAK1ND ($20 in chips)
Seat 3 - PAQUIN16 ($6.10 in chips)
Seat 5 - BILLYDPAINTS ($78.90 in chips)
Seat 6 - MIFFED22001 ($53.85 in chips)
POKERNTHEEYE - Posts small blind $0.25
2OFAK1ND - Posts big blind $0.50
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to MIFFED22001 [Kd Ks]
PAQUIN16 - Folds
BILLYDPAINTS - Raises $2 to $2
MIFFED22001 - Raises $6 to $6
ZIM_BOB - All-In(Raise) $98.50 to $98.50 <<<open 200bbs push.
POKERNTHEEYE - Folds
2OFAK1ND - Folds
BILLYDPAINTS - Folds
MIFFED22001 - Folds
ZIM_BOB - returned ($92.50) : not called
*** SHOW DOWN ***
ZIM_BOB - Shows [Ad Ac]
ZIM_BOB Collects $14.75 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($14.75)
Seat 1: POKERNTHEEYE (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 2: 2OFAK1ND (big blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 3: PAQUIN16 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 5: BILLYDPAINTS Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 6: MIFFED22001 Folded on the POCKET CARDS
Seat 9: ZIM_BOB (dealer) collected Total ($14.75) All-In
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bode
Old 08-14-2006, 01:20 PM #23 (permalink)  
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 as has been said already, while villains line does reak of AA, you already have half of your stack committed, and are getting 4:1. Call.
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bode
Old 08-14-2006, 01:21 PM #24 (permalink)  
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 wow. bearcats05, amazing avatar.
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eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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WhooFleuryScores
Old 08-15-2006, 12:28 AM #25 (permalink)  
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Considering the fact you raised half your stack I think you are pot committed regardless.Either call or fold don't reraise half your stack and fold. If you had bigger stacks say you were both 200BB deep then a reraise for info is ok-his push then would mean AA and you could fold.
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Anosmic
Old 08-15-2006, 01:37 AM #26 (permalink)  
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Okay first I want to echo the tiny glimmer of positivity I've seen here: well done.

You did a number of things that are GOOD signs. You were willing to lay down a big hand when you thought you were beat. That's good discipline and that's going to help you later on.

You also thought about it afterwards and you posted it for advice here. Also good moves

Now learn the right lessons from this thread. That you've got to look at the odds more carefully. That you have to try to see the range the opponent could have, and be careful of forming "reads" too quickly. ''

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andy609
Old 08-15-2006, 02:41 AM #27 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Now learn the right lessons from this thread. That you've got to look at the odds more carefully. That you have to try to see the range the opponent could have, and be careful of forming "reads" too quickly. ''

gl.
I'm still a little confused about the odds. I'm getting 3.9 to 1 on my call and I'm 4.6 to 1 to win. It is close, but it's still not favorable odds and we're all-in, so there are no implied odds to make up the difference.
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Old 08-15-2006, 02:47 AM #28 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anosmic
Now learn the right lessons from this thread. That you've got to look at the odds more carefully. That you have to try to see the range the opponent could have, and be careful of forming "reads" too quickly. ''

gl.
I'm still a little confused about the odds. I'm getting 3.9 to 1 on my call and I'm 4.6 to 1 to win. It is close, but it's still not favorable odds and we're all-in, so there are no implied odds to make up the difference.
(As far as I can make out)

There's also the chance that he's on AKs, QQ, or maybe even AQs. This makes up for the 0.7.
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bantam222
Old 08-15-2006, 06:57 AM #29 (permalink)  
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QQ....maybe....

KK/AA never 25NL for me
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chipfiddler
Old 08-20-2006, 01:57 AM #30 (permalink)  

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i really really think he could have QQ, JJ, AK.

like the other dudes said, you had almost the right odds to call AA here.

notwithstanding that, it takes a lot of balls to lay down KK preflop.
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