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SinkRox
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02-21-2006, 02:53 AM
Post subject: Im ditching 10max gayness
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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Why did I bother with it anyway? Camping and cracking, or camping and getting cracked. It became the least fun and started really doing my head in.
Now I'm moving into the wounderful world of 6max, where players are worse and looser. I gain more of an advantage over any edges I have, and my poker game has a chance to improve at a quicker rate. Also there are far more 6max games relative to 10max (especially higher up the stakes) and they're juicier.
Why would anyone prefer 10max over 6max? Apart from 6max is harder and requires more BR.
After a break from poker Ive made the transition today and am feeling very content with the move.
I've managed to start running off the bat at what I belive to be good figures (after research). Im only at 500 hands but im on 25/8.5/3.2), and im confident with my post flop play, though my river play/desicions need a bit of honing.
Wish me luck!
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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Fnord
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02-21-2006, 02:58 AM
Post subject: Re: Im ditching 10max gayness
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#2 (permalink)
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SinkRox
Why would anyone prefer 10max over 6max? Apart from 6max is harder and requires more BR.
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Because the regulars in the 100NL & 200NL full games are stupid easy to read and many of them can be pushed off hands. Also, the fish are practically drawing dead when up against 8 other hands.
I moved back to full ring to rebuild after some losses and practice playing small ball with really bad players. Naked aggression and opening too much from UTG & HJ at a 6 max table can be real chip burners. However, the full ring crowd gives you more credit for a hand, so I can raise up a wider range from those spots.
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bigred
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PROFESSIONAL TROLL
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Nest of Douchebags
Posts: 2,184
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Besides Ford's reasons, a lot of players fail to adjust to the aggressive 6max game. They either become too passive and lose a lot to blinds and aggression, or become overaggressive and lose a lot to bad play in general.
While I believe 6max is more profitable, it requires a player to make a greater amount of marginal decisions. This can be too much for a lot of players.
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LOL OPERATIONS
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Not that I think this is the ideal way to play poker, but I think the biggest reason to play 9-10 handed ring games is just to play more tables. While your reads and your play suffer, it's practical to play 8-9 tables and grind out a great winrate at all those tables combined just due to the amount of mistakes opponents make preflop in even semi-good games.
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SinkRox
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Brighton, UK
Posts: 624
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Lukie, this is the thing.. i dont want to be a robot to any degree anymore (ive spent about 8 months 4-7 tabling 10max). Yeh its doable but its boring, and a bad run has just done my head in. I also dont want to win due to idiots making mistakes.. I want to be a great player, and win due to idiots making mistakes, and ALSO becomming a great player! (yeh I have alot more studying to do for that  ) and making the most of marginal situations/improving post flop play etc.
BigRed and Fnord I think one area of my game which made me suffer at 10max is over-aggression postflop. Tight (12-14% vpip) I couldnt get my PFR past 4%. Then hammering most pots im in, esp with position. But at the 50nl tables I were at i dont think it did me much good.. I also had trouble laying high pairs and would try and get a cheap SD instead after being c/called, c/r or bet into instead of letting go.
I think the most profitable winning 6max style is more natural for me at a 6man table, than the 10max strat is for me at 10man tables.
Another + of moving to 6max is incredibly im happy to 1 or 2 table. Theres so much more action and reads are more rewarded and payoff more. Reads are also easier to get, as players play more hands.. and obv theres less players to watch. ATM i'm really determined to improve my game, and feel this is a good route to take 
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Experimenting - 200NL 5max.
"They say that dreams are real only as long as they last. Couldn't you say the same thing about life?" Waking life
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Lukie
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
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Sink, I agree with you. I'm just pointing out perhaps the biggest reason why some of the more successful multi-tablers are playing full ring as opposed to short-handed games.
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flyingPenguin
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Straight
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 193
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So what specifically is the difference in style. Obviously you have to be more aggressive, but in what way. Is it more about getting reads? More bluffing? Playing more starting hands from earlier position?
How do you change your style of play?
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by SinkRox
I couldnt get my PFR past 4%.
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Lol, I can't get it under 8%.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SinkRox
I couldnt get my PFR past 4%.
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Lol, I can't get it under 8%. |
How does your PFR vary with position?
And what's your winrate with raising 22-88 from EP/MP?
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by SinkRox
I couldnt get my PFR past 4%.
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Lol, I can't get it under 8%. |
Ya, I think mine's like 9.
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Iconoclastic
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 324
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Why stop at 6 max? Heads Up seems to be even better for you.
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What's the difference between a large cheese pizza and a poker player?
A large cheese pizza can feed a family of four.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Wait until you hit a large downswing in 6max, then you'll know why people play 10max. You hit downswings in 10max by having AA/KK cracked a couple times. You hit downswings in 6max by having TPTK cracked a couple times and then question your play until you drop 3 more buyins playing scared. One reason you meniton the move is a downswing - 6max downswings are quicker and larger. If you can handle them, then 6max may be for you.
I do agree that you can improve your reads by playing 6max. It has helped me. I got lucky when I started as well. I went up right away. The first downswing didn't hurt as much because of that.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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Ya and your right.
Everytime I think about 10max full ring, I just can't get the thought of manonman buttsex out of my mind.
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midas06
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 2,196
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
Wait until you hit a large downswing in 6max, then you'll know why people play 10max. You hit downswings in 10max by having AA/KK cracked a couple times. You hit downswings in 6max by having TPTK cracked a couple times and then question your play until you drop 3 more buyins playing scared. One reason you meniton the move is a downswing - 6max downswings are quicker and larger. If you can handle them, then 6max may be for you.
I do agree that you can improve your reads by playing 6max. It has helped me. I got lucky when I started as well. I went up right away. The first downswing didn't hurt as much because of that.
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An example of a 6max swing.
At B2B at the 100nl 6max tables, I dropped $450. By the end of the session, I was up $200.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by midas06
Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
Wait until you hit a large downswing in 6max, then you'll know why people play 10max. You hit downswings in 10max by having AA/KK cracked a couple times. You hit downswings in 6max by having TPTK cracked a couple times and then question your play until you drop 3 more buyins playing scared. One reason you meniton the move is a downswing - 6max downswings are quicker and larger. If you can handle them, then 6max may be for you.
I do agree that you can improve your reads by playing 6max. It has helped me. I got lucky when I started as well. I went up right away. The first downswing didn't hurt as much because of that.
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An example of a 6max swing.
At B2B at the 100nl 6max tables, I dropped $450. By the end of the session, I was up $200. |
Same exact thing happened to me at Martins. I thought I was going to lose my deposit before clearing, then went on a hot streak. Probably helped that I started to use my head.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
Wait until you hit a large downswing in 6max, then you'll know why people play 10max. You hit downswings in 10max by having AA/KK cracked a couple times. You hit downswings in 6max by having TPTK cracked a couple times and then question your play until you drop 3 more buyins playing scared. One reason you meniton the move is a downswing - 6max downswings are quicker and larger. If you can handle them, then 6max may be for you.
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Quoted for truth.
I started playing 6-max a month ago. There are a few people here that listened to me spout off about how easy the game was, how it was easier to read players, and make that money-honey.
After a decent sized downswing (about $700 playing about half NL100 and half NL200), I'm here to tell you that everything r8ed said is true. I've started to doubt my game (a lot) after running really bad. I've started doing stupid things like bluffing more than I should, too, because all of that stuff worked when I first started playing it.
I wish you luck with 6-max, but it's not as easy as everyone says it is....or everyone would be doing it.
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sunfunbunch
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 176
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As people have mentioned earlier, 6 max is so darn VOLATILE.
People will call cont bets more often since "they don't believe you" and you will often be cracked with some wierd holdings.
Learn how to defend the blinds, or an smart player will just enjoy making a profit off of you whenever it is your blinds. Learn how to do this at the lower levels, so that you are ready to this at the higher levels as well.
How do you adjust? Sometimes I play 40%preflop and raise 30% of the time, sometimes 30%/20%PFR... all depends on the table and momentum of cards.
After playing some 6 max, it's THEN fun to go back to full ring games and try to play 'LAGGY'. 
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sunfunbunch
Sometimes I play 40%preflop and raise 30% of the time, sometimes 30%/20%PFR
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This is why those games are so good. Aware players play like this and worse players make this type of play profitable.
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