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Dislexsik
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08-01-2005, 10:51 PM
Post subject: I need advice because im angry now
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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When i just play NL,0.10-0.20 i always tend to lose when i use the same strats on Sng or MTT.Its driving me crazy.
For example when i have good cards and i make a bet i always get those guys chasing me and they ALWAYS get their lucky card on the river...
Ok i know when to fold or not,but i have the feeling those guys dont know what they are doing...or either i really suck but why do i play good in tournaments?
When i use the same strats on SnG or MTT this bad luck never happens to me,and i do well most of the time,but playing low stacks always makes me lose...
Any advice? 
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bencathers
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Manhattan & Boston
Posts: 480
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At that level, they will chase and call... There's a difference in an SNG when you raise it 500 as 5x bb and when you raise it 50 cents as a 5x BB.... to them, its "50 cents to catch a flush!" while for others its "crap, half my stack and we're almost ITM to chase a flush"
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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{moved from commune}
-'rilla
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Theeggman
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Flush
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 363
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bencathers
There's a difference in an SNG when you raise it 500 as 5x bb and when you raise it 50 cents as a 5x BB.... to them, its "50 cents to catch a flush!" while for others its "crap, half my stack and we're almost ITM to chase a flush"
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bing 
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I'll be a rootin' tootin' shootin' damn fool, protectin' my chips.
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BeatMeBad
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 49
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bencathers
At that level, they will chase and call... There's a difference in an SNG when you raise it 500 as 5x bb and when you raise it 50 cents as a 5x BB.... to them, its "50 cents to catch a flush!" while for others its "crap, half my stack and we're almost ITM to chase a flush"
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Exactly. It's just like they are dropping their .50 into a slot machine and waiting for the bananas to line up. They think that if they can hit the flush this one time, it will make up for the other 3 (even if it's really 30, they don't see it as that many) times that they missed it. Unfortunately for you, and definately for me, it seems that the 2 in 60 times they hit, it's against you and me.
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"My lucky number is 4 billion. That doesn't come in real handy when you're gambling. "Come on, 4 billion! Fuck. Seven. Not even close. I need more dice." - Mitch Hedberg
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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So what do i do then?Move up in stakes?Cause im not learning much imo when playing in lower stakes,i only learn how to get annoyed. 
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spino1i
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 25/50's f'in hard!
Posts: 893
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dislexsik
So what do i do then?Move up in stakes?Cause im not learning much imo when playing in lower stakes,i only learn how to get annoyed. |
Whatever you do, dont move up in stakes. This is a common beginner misconception that somehow the players will be better at higher stakes and wont suck out as often since they dont chase as much. They are better, and they dont chase as much, but they will just take more of your money anyway. Chasing is good, not bad! Everytime you put your money in with the odds ahead, your going to be making money in the long run. Just keep doing it and itll start paying off.
If there are any particular hands you lost and you want advice on what to do, or to know if you just got unlucky, post them in the Hands forum and id be glad to tell you what happened.
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BR now: $106900
Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
Goal: $125000 for $25/50 NL live
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Dislexsik, you are sounding like an absolute casebook beginner who thinks they're better than the fish. Perhaps you are, in some ways, but your game obviously isn't rounded enough to deal with the poor players, so think how often the good players will find ways of taking advantage of your weaknesses.
You beat these people by playing the odds, making sure you know as well as you can what your chances are of winning, and playing accordingly. A flush-chasing fish with a flush draw on the flop will get their flush 35% of the time; so you make sure that, each time they have a draw, they have to pay over the odds to see the next card. You'll still lose 35% of the time when they make it to the river, but you'll have taken more of their money than they should have given you the times when they *don't* win.
Seriously, this is so key to hold'em that if you either ignore it or don't understand it, you're going to consistently lose money. If you don't understand that you will get sucked out on the river by people who aren't playing "proper" poker, then you're even more blinkered.
The only time you should get annoyed is when YOU make a mistake and it costs you. But then, you look over your actions, realise where you went wrong, and tweak your game so you won't do it again.
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Dislexsik
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: On the grind
Posts: 832
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I know what u mean,but why does my playing style do good in tournaments but not in low stakes?
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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Because they're different games! Essentially, the answer is:
- IN A TOURNEY, IF YOU GO BUST YOU'RE OUT, FINITO
- IN LOW STAKES GAMES, IF YOU LOSE EVERYTHING, AND LET'S FACE IT EVEN IF YOU DO IT WON'T BE VERY MUCH, YOU CAN BUY BACK IN STRAIGHT AWAY
But other people have said that above - they're good posts, give them another read.
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EthanH1
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: England
Posts: 50
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Quote:
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You beat these people by playing the odds, making sure you know as well as you can what your chances are of winning, and playing accordingly. A flush-chasing fish with a flush draw on the flop will get their flush 35% of the time; so you make sure that, each time they have a draw, they have to pay over the odds to see the next card. You'll still lose 35% of the time when they make it to the river, but you'll have taken more of their money than they should have given you the times when they *don't* win.
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the thing as a beginer to online play is does that atchly stand up if i went in to four table with $10 and played these hands and lost is it not true that i could get in to another four tables with $10 and still lose to these type of hands and as a beginer this could be all my bank role all in one day, how long is it online before the odds kick in? 1 month, 10 months, 10 years? as i understand it the random genrators that sites use don't give use this info. so how can you realy know?
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EricE
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 894
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EthanH1
the thing as a beginer to online play is does that atchly stand up if i went in to four table with $10 and played these hands and lost is it not true that i could get in to another four tables with $10 and still lose to these type of hands and as a beginer this could be all my bank role all in one day, how long is it online before the odds kick in? 1 month, 10 months, 10 years? as i understand it the random genrators that sites use don't give use this info. so how can you realy know?
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Wow, I have never actually seen “atchly” spelled that way. 
Other than berating you for poor spelling I do have a usefull comment though.
Just take it on faith that the random number generator will work out in your favor if you play proper poker. Don’t subscribe to the fish-way-of-thinking that maybe just this one time I can win even if I play improper poker. That is a recipe for losing money. Play proper poker and the $ you win will outweigh the $ you lose. It’s a fact even though I can’t tell you how long that might be. Several hrs, days, whatever. The variance of poker insures that I can’t give you hard figures on how long.
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Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
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EasyT
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Yo Mamma
Posts: 834
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Bet More.
If you're certain that you're ahead, and they're chasing a flush. Bet twice the pot, and hope they keep on chasing. Repeat on the Turn.
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TLR
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Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,007
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It has been said many times but it is worth mentioning once more
The unavoidable reality in poker is that sometimes you will make all the 'correct' move and still lose this specific hand. This is true to any game that has a random factor built into it (poker, backgammon, monolopy, you name it)
The fact that in the short term randomness has an affect on the game and even a terrible player gets lucky is the reason that there are so many horrible poker players that keep coming back.
Poker is a game when you measure your wins over a loooooooooooooong period of time, not over one hand, one session, one day or one week.
At least from my experience and the experience of my regular gaming groups 'bad' periods when you get no cards, all coin flips go against you etc.. dont last more then a few weeks
Fortunally for us another unaviodable reallity of poker is that in the loooooong run good players will make money, so keep the faith.
Guess what I am trying to say is that you have to keep playing correct poker - make people pay to chase, dont chase yourself when you do not have pot odds, play only good starting hands, post some hand histories on this site and see the comments you get, keep reading and learning and everything will work out in the end
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underminedsk
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Flush
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Reraising you from the button
Posts: 250
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by EthanH1
Quote:
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You beat these people by playing the odds, making sure you know as well as you can what your chances are of winning, and playing accordingly. A flush-chasing fish with a flush draw on the flop will get their flush 35% of the time; so you make sure that, each time they have a draw, they have to pay over the odds to see the next card. You'll still lose 35% of the time when they make it to the river, but you'll have taken more of their money than they should have given you the times when they *don't* win.
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the thing as a beginer to online play is does that atchly stand up if i went in to four table with $10 and played these hands and lost is it not true that i could get in to another four tables with $10 and still lose to these type of hands and as a beginer this could be all my bank role all in one day, how long is it online before the odds kick in? 1 month, 10 months, 10 years? as i understand it the random genrators that sites use don't give use this info. so how can you realy know? |
No matter how long it takes, the odds eventually wind up in your favor. As long as your money is going while you are ahead, you are going to win in the long run. When this happens, and then the table fish  sucks out for his 4 outer straight against your two pair after you both are all in, you shouldn't be mad about losing your $10 buyin, you should be happy that you correctly pushed in your chips at the right time, because lets face it, the next 1000 times you make the same move, you take all his money 93% of the time. If you cannot win in the long term with those kinds of odds in your favor, maybe you need to check to see what you are doing wrong. Those random number generators are random, and if you keep making good moves, you CANNOT lose in the long run, and thats a statistical fact.
Like someone else said above me, I've found that my harshest downswings dont last for more than a week or two. If you are losing, losing, losing, maybe its time to take a break for a few days, or a week so you dont go on tilt. This is what I do.
Every person on this site who is sucessfully crushing online poker is a testament to the fact that it CAN be done, and is being done as we speak.
Just keep learning and stick with it. 
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