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I hate this... (not a bad beat story)

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Darby

10-27-2004, 04:47 AM Post subject: I hate this... (not a bad beat story)

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 209

it involves maybe a bad beat, but it isnt about that. The hand i am talking about, I flopped a king high flush, vs an A high flush and lost eventually finished losing one buy in. today i am down about 3 buy ins, 75 bucks, which was like half my 150 bankroll. its not the rent money or anything, but I hate that feeling because it takes a decent amount of time to build your bakroll but just a few loosish calls to decimate it.

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Eric

10-27-2004, 04:59 AM

#2 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,782

Sounds a lot like investing in stocks. Sometimes they go up somewhat slowly but they can come crashing down in a very short timeframe.

Fnord

10-27-2004, 05:45 AM

#3 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,333

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Nothing wrong with that call and probably nothing wrong with your play. People way under-estimate the bankroll requirements and swings that poker brings.

Dropping 3 buy-ins playing NL (and perhaps as a marginal winner) is a blip. Being results oriented in the short term will drive you to insanity. Just focus on playing each hand the best than you can and the money will follow.

Invest more money into your bankroll and then go get 'em tiger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

|~|ypermegachi

10-27-2004, 06:11 AM

#4 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

good bankroll guidelines to follow are:

10x the max buyin for NL ring games
10x the buyin+rake for SnGs
150xBB for fixed limit games.

that's enough money to handle most swings, but in the rare occasion you could actually go through all of that if you get cold cards, go on tilt, etc.

if you're really paranoid, double the above requirements and you should be fine. if you still lose it all, you need to work on your game.

Fnord

10-27-2004, 06:16 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

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Those bankrolls are too small by a factor of 2.

20x buy-in for NL
20x buy-in for SnG
300x Big Bet for Limit

That being said, I know of good winning players who have had swings that would do serious damage to any one of those bankrolls.

My personal worst swings (so far)
NL: 12x buy-in
Limit: nearly 150BB

Also, having a thick bankroll will give you the confidence to make aggressive, winning plays.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Darby

10-27-2004, 06:17 AM

#6 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2004

Posts: 209

yeah, i am starting to see the importance of bankroll... the thing was, i deposited 50 and lost it slowly, then another 50 and gradually lost it... and now im on this 50 im up 20 bucks...

if i lose it i am going to take some time off and save up a bigger bankroll like 2-300 bucks...

|~|ypermegachi

10-27-2004, 06:25 AM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2004

Location: emo-kid

Posts: 3,580

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darby

if you're really short on cash, i'd recommend saving up to 400 bucks, and then deposit to pacific poker. they will give you an instant 100 bonus. you can then cashout your 400, and play with the bonus money. you won't be able to cash out that bonus money until you wager a shitload of money (basically you'll have to play at pacific exclusively for a month of 2 to be able to cash it out), but you CAN cash out all your profits. pacific is one of the juiciest sites out there, you shouldn't have too much trouble beating the competition there. but be prepared for many suck outs.

10-27-2004, 07:51 AM

#8 (permalink)

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gutshot

10-27-2004, 02:59 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Feb 2004

Location: lemonade was a popular drink and it still is

Posts: 608

I had one of those exact same hands yesterday too.

"The worst hand in poker is not 72 off suit. It's the 2nd best hand." In our cases, the 2nd nuts cost us a buncha money. I'd play it the same way every time.

-jay

"i think the biggest leak in my game is using 2nd level thinking against players who can't think on the first level." -Renton

okietalker

10-28-2004, 03:03 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Party 100/200NL

Posts: 53

Thats why I hate having the second best possible hand......... what do you do when the guy comes at you like he has the nuts?

Well it's hard to fold such a strong hand..........

I don't know, maybe if you have notes on the guy it would help.

But crap, you do have the second best possible hand.

I have only folded a hand like this once, and he showed me the nuts.

8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

zenbitz

10-28-2004, 04:47 PM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2004

Posts: 2,911

IMHO - and I am not very experienced is that this is a macho thing.

The reason it's hard to lay down the 2nd Nuts is that you can't bear being bluffed (or even semi bluffed) out of a pot. The same feeling that you get when you fold KQos in early position and the flop is KQx. That was YOUR pot and you surrendered faster than the French Army.

Let's say it's your K-flush vs. 3 suited board, and you are rasied over the top.
There are 3 possibilities:

1) He has the AXs
2) He has XXs
3) He has a pair or 2-pair (semi-bluff, if he thinks you have the flush)
3) Pure bluff.

You win 3 out of 4 - but are the odds greater than 1/4 that he has the A? If so, you should fold (modulate pot size/bet/etc.). Obviously - it's impossible to call if you don't have a read on him. PFR from a non-maniac not shorthanded... he probably has the A.

Maybe he will get cocky and show you his bluff.... maybe he will think you a weak, passive player. Make him pay for that later.

Of course, if you're pot commited... it's irrelvant, although if you are and he IS bluffing, then he's a total moron.

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I hate this... (not a bad beat story)

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