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I got owned by 10NL!

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Smoooth

08-15-2006, 08:15 AM Post subject: I got owned by 10NL!

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

Well guess its time to move back to 5NL cause I suck so much. I made $50 in about 3500 hands and had the BR for 10nl so I moved up. The problem is I dont know what I did wrong. I know this is a tiny sample of hands but do you think I had good variance to make the money to begin with or bad variance to lose it? I have PT so I can post any stats for you to criticize. Help please!

I loosened up slightly with a little more pf raise and steal attempts. I'll post some HHs also where I lost lots of money.

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Smoooth

08-15-2006, 08:24 AM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

This has got to be one of the worst hands I've ever played. I don't know what I was thinking.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($11.40)
MP1 ($2.40)
MP2 ($9.20)
CO ($3.35)
Button ($7.05)
SB ($0.95)
Hero ($9.10)
UTG ($14.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A

, Q

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, MP1 raises to $0.2, 1 fold, CO calls $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, UTG+1 calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.85) A

, A

, 6

(4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $0.1, MP1 raises to $0.5, CO folds, Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 calls $0.40.

Turn: ($2.35) 9

(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP1 bets $0.5, Hero raises to $2, UTG+1 raises to $3.5, MP1 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

River: ($9.85) 4

(2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets $4.8, Hero calls $4.80.

Final Pot: $19.45

Results in white below:
Hero has Ad Qh (three of a kind, aces).
UTG+1 has 6h 6c (full house, sixes full of aces).
Outcome: UTG+1 wins $19.45.

Smoooth

08-15-2006, 08:40 AM

#3 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

This one doesnt seem so bad to me but maybe I'm wrong? Maybe wrong to call the raise PF but I figured he was just trying to steal.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($11.65)
SB ($2)
BB ($10)
UTG ($14.85)
UTG+1 ($9.20)
Hero ($10.75)
MP2 ($18.05)
CO ($10.20)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 8

, 7

.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds, Button raises to $0.4, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30.

Flop: ($0.95) 5

, 9

, Q

(2 players)
Hero bets $1, Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($6.95) 4

(2 players)
Hero bets $5, Button calls $5.

River: ($16.95) 5

(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3, Hero calls $2.35 (All-In).

Final Pot: $22.30

Results in white below:
Hero has 8h 7h (flush, queen high).
Button has 9s 9d (full house, nines full of fives).
Outcome: Button wins $22.29.

jacbmw

08-15-2006, 09:41 AM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Down Under

Posts: 96

Hand One:

* Raise more pre-flop - 8xBB at 10NL. Put them on some range, otherwise you are running blind. Raise to a level that will get the hand two handed. These multi-way pots are dangerous.

* Flop: MP1 has PP, and whats to see whats up. UTG+1 stupid 10c bet is shit, bet pot to make him make the decision and dont give him odds for the draw.

* Turn: I like the turn raise. Get that MP1 shit out. However at 10NL the re-raise means trouble, with no real preflop raise this could me anything from AJ-A7. A6 would call behind. I am surprised that the player played 66 this way, as i would wait for the river and the flush to try hit.

Morale of story: raise a shit load pre-flop to isolate. This is the key at this limit. Then you are opened up to the whole C-Bet arena with position and the right board.

Check out my Blog: Jakes 4P's - Poker, Pussy, Party and Performance: http://whitepage.com.au/jake

biondino

08-15-2006, 12:00 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

That graph looks like you went on tilt at the end, pushing all-in with sub-optimal hands out of desperation after a frustrating session - am I close?

Smoooth

08-15-2006, 12:10 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

I don't think I was on tilt..I never got mad after getting stacked. Maybe I just wasnt paying enough attention.

Anyway I just finished a 2hr session 4 tabling 5NL FR. I am up 7 buyins. Although I'm happy about making most of it back, I'm worried maybe I'm starting to play too aggressive post flop. Anyway to check post flop aggressiveness with PT? Heres my current graphs.

biondino

08-15-2006, 02:19 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Very nice

. But you've got to worry if you can lose multiple buyins through "not paying attention"!

Would you mind posting the hand histories of each occasion you got stacked in that horrible downswing? That's probably the only way we'll know for sure.

aokrongly

08-15-2006, 02:40 PM Post subject: ...

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 863

...

Rondavu

08-15-2006, 02:45 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 3,053

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoooth

This has got to be one of the worst hands I've ever played. I don't know what I was thinking.

This hand wasn't played badly. Ok, so your main problem at this limit is playing too aggressively before your hand is made. You can't play poker like the pros at 10NL, even though it seems so cool. You simply don't have the fold equity, or overall ability to make your opponents fold. Often at this level, people call with any pair, any draw, or two overcards.

You must check and follow for the right price most of the time when drawing. You must bet your made hands hard, and fold marginal hands like top pair mid kicker in multiway action pots.

Your first read should be to identify who at the table is trying to play somewhat correctly. Once you identify them, you can semibluff, and occassionally stone cold bluff these players only.

It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.

Smoooth

08-15-2006, 05:57 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

Thanks for the help guys...those two hands were part of the downswing. Here is another one of them. Had a K not come up on the turn I would have folded to a strong bet.
A reraise PF probably would've helped my flop decision?
Should I have folded the flop to the re-reraise?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($8.75)
CO ($2.25)
Button ($11.30)
SB ($27.45)
BB ($10.95)
UTG ($14.80)
UTG+1 ($11)
MP1 ($9.10)
Hero ($7.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A

, K

.
UTG raises to $0.3, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.30, 5 folds.

Flop: ($0.75) A

, Q

, 6

(2 players)
UTG bets $0.3, Hero raises to $1, UTG raises to $3, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($6.75) K

(2 players)
UTG bets $5.1, Hero calls $4.45 (All-In).

River: ($16.30) 5

(2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $16.30

Results in white below:
UTG has 6d 6h (three of a kind, sixes).
Hero has Ad Kh (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins $16.30.

Smoooth

08-15-2006, 06:11 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2006

Posts: 28

Here is a theoretical hand. 9 handed.

Hero is BB for $0.10
Dealt to hero: :Ah:

UTG calls $0.10,5 folds,button calls,SB calls,Hero checks.

Flop($0.40): :Qc:

4 checks
Turn($0.40)

2 checks,UTG bets $0.30,2 folds, Hero raises to $0.75...

Is this too aggressive? Say UTG calls..

River($1.90)

What now? c/r? c/f? lead out?

IowaSkinsFan

08-15-2006, 07:05 PM

#12 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 7,148

IowaSkinsFan will become famous soon enough

The chart says you lost $60? That's a normal swing for 10nl, it happens. If you can't handle that swing I don't think you're rolled for it.

Check out the new blog!!!

08-15-2006, 10:02 PM

#13 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Posts: 1,095

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoooth

Anyway to check post flop aggressiveness with PT?

Yes click the more detail button. Its under the General tab (main page that you view your stats) on the right hand side.

Vrax

08-15-2006, 11:11 PM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

umm losing 6 buyins on soft micro table is not a common swing, it looks leaky.

If you lose and don't know why you lose, it's good to post a lot of HH's on forum in order to get sanity check. Not PT stats and questions like "I am 15/6, am I a nit?" or "look at those blind steal stats is 34% defense good?" . Those won't help you much. Even if you have ideal postflop aggression, you may still have shitty game because you pick wrong spots to bet and you back off when you should attack.

Post shitload of hand histories. Those with big pots and big decisions.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

bantam222

08-16-2006, 12:35 AM

#15 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2005

Posts: 208

You are playing 10NL with only $50?

Stay at 5NL and grind up to $150-200 and then swings like this won't kill your bank roll. We all have leaks in our games, so if you keep posting hands you will be able to fix them and begin beating 10NL.

How many tables are you playing at once? You said you were 4 tabling 5NL. Maybe cut down to 1 or 2 tables, work on getting reads and putting your opponents on hands and then you can slowly add tables.

mcatdog

08-16-2006, 01:18 AM

#16 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 3,654

None of the hands you posted in this thread were that bad despite what others have told you. A few things could have been done differently here and there but nothing looks horrible to me.

raydel

08-16-2006, 01:38 AM

#17 (permalink)

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Posts: 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

None of the hands you posted in this thread were that bad despite what others have told you. A few things could have been done differently here and there but nothing looks horrible to me.

I'm glad someone said that. I'm just starting out myself and couldn't see any terrible errors. I was worried that all my study and practice so far was going to waste. I've had plenty hands like this and don't feel owned after them. Of course, that big downsizing can be a kick in the nuts and make you see your play in a different light.

-Ray

Ash256

08-16-2006, 04:37 AM

#18 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: UK

Posts: 1,760

I feel you should've bumped it up more with AK and AQ, but having said that, I don't know anything about how the 10NL game at stars. Over at iPoker, AK is a reraise to get Q9 and that crap out. The two hands you posted, it's only preflop that I see huge mistakes. That UTG reraise with the set rings alarm bells, but we don't have any reads, so it's difficult. You got plain and simple rivered on the hand where you made a flush, nothing you could've done there, except for maybe pushing the turn. That AQ hand, I don't think there's much you could've done there personally due to the amount of players in. You could very easily have been up against 99/ARag there. Although in that spot, I'm not check-calling, I'm betting hard to find out where I'm at.

Please correct me if I'm giving shit advice.

Listen to my music

jackvance

08-16-2006, 04:53 AM

#19 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 2,910

jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

I think you're not posting hands that are representational. If you make a good hand and someone else makes a better one, it's especially hard to get away from it at 10NL b/c these people might play any crap hand like that too.. this happens, but normally you can make up for this easily because you can win at 10NL even if you don't get many good hands..

Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity

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