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martindcx1e
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04-02-2006, 05:46 AM
Post subject: I feel lost w/ TPTK sometimes
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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So in general I feel lost a lot of times, usually on the flop, as to how to play TPTK (and sometimes K kicker), especially OOP. When OOP against like 3-5 opponents, if I pot the flop and get called by 2 or 3 I then feel kinda sick on the other streets because the pot can start to get really huge. But I also feel like if I bet less or don't bet at all then I'm just playing scared and letting everyone draw out on me for a great price. Also, when OOP against 1 or 2 opponents if I pot the flop and get raised by 1 of them I feel lost as to whether I should re-raise, which builds the pot OOP without a decent hand, or call, which looks kinda weak and leaves me unsure of what to do on the turn a lot of times. Anybody have advice for these kinds of situations? How would the advice change if I have position on my opponent(s)? Thanks.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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That is very understandable indeed, that you feel lost. With so many people in the pot on your TP, it's value is vastly degraded. That's why you need to raise more preflop so only 1-2 will be there with you to see the flop. Added benefit is that after a higher raise, you can put better estimates on what they're holding.
The hands you play with tons of people in the pot are suited connectors and pps (although the latter should be played in all situations). The reason is that here you have a low chance to hit something, but if you hit, you have an almost assured win. So you either want a lot of people so someone might hit something little and pay up, or a few people who will likely pay up.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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If you play right, you should almost never be in a 5 way pot with TPTK. Make sure you raise preflop correctly.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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I'm not usually in a 5 way pot with TPTK. Forget the number 5 lol. I do find myself against 3 sometimes and 3 is worrisome to me. Any suggestions for the pots played against 1-2 opponents?
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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Renton
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlanta, GA, USA
Posts: 5,991
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get poker tracker, and a HUD. If villain played passively preflop and has the typical set-hunter stats (10-15%vpip, 6-8%pfr) and is all of a sudden raising your TPTK then fold to the potential set. Otherwise, at microstakes, just juice the pot up and expect to win the kicker war.
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dj newman
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 210
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The texture of the flop can give you a pretty good hint as to whether you are good or not. Having AQ on a Q83r board is a much stronger hand than having AQ on a QT9 board with a potential flush draw. Against weak players, having people call my bet on the first example would not worry me, while on the second example I would be worried no matter what kind of opponents. The second one would be a good place to check the flop with TPTK in early position....the pot can become rather large in a hurry because you are definately getting callers if not raisers behind you. There is no way I am betting on the turn if called on the flop...which is why I don't lead #2. You will allow them to draw (for a small pot) which I find to be a better place to be then betting getting called and having to check/fold the turn. Check the flop, bet the turn if a blank hits and price the river.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Yeah, what newton said. The flop matters a lot. Say you got AK and the flop is A36. Pretty safe, at the lower limits someone with AQ or AJ or JJ will pay up. If the board is AT7. Still good. AT would have you beat. Just bet hard enough cuz in all likelyhood they have 2 court cards, so another courtcard could give you headaches for possible straights and maybe 2 pair. This happens, you just gotta make sure you make em pay enough to see the next cards and in the long run this a winning strategy. If however the flop is AQT.. that'd be scary. AT/QT/KJ (and QQ/TT) have you beat now. And if he has something like AJ/KQ/KK/JJ you have him beat, but he has a pair with a gut shot at a straight. Since these hands are all in the range of what you would expect him to have, your TP is pretty shafted here. Ofcourse a J will give you a straight too, but against someone with a K this'll just end up in a tie. So if you can, go for a showdown here that is as cheap as possible. Sure, he might be sitting on a low pp or something, and he'll fold to a raise, but he'll know too you probably have hit something, so the callers you'll get will be the ones that have you beat most likely.
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dj newman
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Straight
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 210
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Newman.....not Newton...lol
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Irisheyes
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: over there
Posts: 3,708
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You don't need to always bet full pot. My standard line is 2/3 on the flop then 1/2 on the turn. Just keep betting like you're ahead 'till someone tells you otherwise. If a non idiot raises the turn, you are probably beat so fold.
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martindcx1e
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Irisheyes
You don't need to always bet full pot. My standard line is 2/3 on the flop then 1/2 on the turn. Just keep betting like you're ahead 'till someone tells you otherwise. If a non idiot raises the turn, you are probably beat so fold.
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Good point Irish. I don't know why I get the feeling like I have to make a "man bet" or no bet at all lol. Thanks.
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dj newman
Newman.....not Newton...lol
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damn, sorry lol
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sejje
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 883
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You're right to be careful with TPTK multi-way. One pair is a scary holding to play a big pot with multiple opponents. That's why you have to isolate preflop.
If you fail to isolate, I would do my best not to play for stacks.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dj newman
Having AQ on a Q83r board is a much stronger hand than having AQ on a QT9 board with a potential flush draw..
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This is true, but I believe the second board makes you more money. People drawing to their hands are tossing you a lot of money here. So while yes, your hand needs to be protected, this is good for you.
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WhooFleuryScores
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 918
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Quote:
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Having AQ on a Q83r board is a much stronger hand than having AQ on a QT9 board with a potential flush draw.
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Don't forget that if you have say AQs on a QT9s flop(where Queen is the rainbow card) that you have a monster hand as well.Presuming you are not up against a set you have 9 for the flush,and a slight chance for runner runner broadway.This is even better if your Ace is live too(presuming you are not up against a clowny KJ .
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