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bair
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05-25-2005, 09:57 PM
Post subject: I consistently lose online.
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 953
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I've been playing texas hold em for 4 years now. I started off playing with my friends for $20 NL, then we moved to $40 NL, then we moved to $50 and $100 NL. Within the past year or two I started playing in an underground game almost every night where the buyin is $200 NL. I consistently win, in fact I almost always win. I've gone on streaks where I have won 2 weeks in a row playing every day. I play against very good players, all who have been playing cards much much much longer than I have. Some are my age, some are much older, some are much much older. I've read numerous poker books, and I feel I know exactly what to do in every situation, and I feel I am as good as if not better as everyone at the table when I sit down. I am not overconfident, I know when I've been outplayed, and I know when to lay a hand down.
I started playing online about a year ago, and I can honestly say I've lost probably $3000. I think I have only withdrawn money from my party poker account one time. I currently have $0 in my account. No matter what no limit tables I play, I lose, whether it be $25, $50, $100, or $200. I typically stay at the lower tables like $50 because I have such little faith in online poker because I lose so much. I literally do not remember the last time I lost a hand on party poker where I did not have the better hand preflop. Is there some magic trick to winning online, because apparently playing the way I play against real poker players does not work whatsoever. I don't understand how people call pot sized bets with bottom pair and hit two pair on the turn. I don't understand how people call a 4x the pot all in inside straight draw and hit it. Every single time I raise preflop, someone calls me with a hand slightly worse than mine, and one I would not even play from the small blind. One of them always wins no matter how much I bet correctly, whether its according to pot odds or according to what I think they have. They always call, ALWAYS. They always draw out, ALWAYS. I've kept track of how many times I have won and loss with aces in the past 3 weeks or so, and I have lost 11 times and won 4. Like I said I know how to play, I know how much to raise, I know how much to bet to get every draw out according to pot odds, usually I bet a lot more than that online because everyone calls anyway. Is there some "online secret" I am missing out on, am I just unlucky, or is online poker just not for me? I've almost lost half of my non-online poker bankroll by playing online.
Also how do you guys know when to switch tables, or do you never switch tables?
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whileone
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 306
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it's all RIGGED! no. just kidding.
i bet you're more of a psycology guy than a math guy. i bet you rock in person, because you can read people. you *think* you're making the right play because of the math in live games, but really you're picking up on some "i'm a wuss" vibe. maybe not, but that would explain a lot.
fifteen AA really isn't enough to tell what's going on. so, yes statisticly if you're getting all in pre flop, and called you should have won like 11 of those rather than 4, but it happens. if i flip a coin ten times, it can come up tails all 10 times. it's unlikely, but possible.
maybe you started your first real big swing. maybe you're playing good, but the cards aren't hitting. I've heard of solid pros breaking even over 60k. 60 freaking thousand hands. i doubt you've played that many hands in your whole live play career.
party poker saves the hand histories on your hard drive. Go make sure. verify that you were as far ahead as you think you were at twodimes. this was a bit of an eye opener for me:
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ad Ah 1493820 87.24 212248 12.40 6236 0.36 0.874
2s 7c 212248 12.40 1493820 87.24 6236 0.36 0.126
7 2 off suit is not even a 10 - 1 dog against AA. you're NEVER that far ahead or behind. lot's of fish WILL draw out fairly often, even if you're playing perfect.
Quote:
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Every single time I raise preflop, someone calls me with a hand slightly worse than mine
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if that's the case, it's near a coin flip. you need tens of thousands of hands to decide if you're winning.
Take your time, post some hand histories. play lower stakes until you KNOW how often you will get drawn out. If you're playing perfect, the only time you should loose is bad beats, right?
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Noooooooooooooooo!!
--Darth Vader
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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you've got the money to buy Poker Tracker: Buy it, use it, post on here what your stats are after a few thousand hands. To me, the cure for online trouble is reverting into rock-like status. It may not be the most fun, but i think it is the easiest way to consistently turn a profit in the beginning.
I was playing on prima only, and i switched to party mainly .25/.5 and .5/1, and i was down big after 4000 hands. So, I started playing .1/.25 and playing tight as crap, and i've been seeing 15% of flops for 2800 hands and am at 26BB/100 
Try it for a while, see if it works. If you think your current style is correct/better, post hands and your PT stats.
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arkana
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,109
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Maybe you have trouble playing against calling stations, try moving to a site where there is more weak tight players like PS.
Alternatively you could have one of us observe your play for a while and see if they can spot any big errors in your game.
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Shark Bait
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
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hmmm...other way around for me. I can't win any money playing in real life.
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LeFou
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05-27-2005, 02:56 PM
Post subject: Re: I consistently lose online.
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#6 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
I literally do not remember the last time I lost a hand on Party Poker where I did not have the better hand preflop. |
You definitely need pokertracker. It remembers this stuff for you.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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You need to adapt. Raise more, bet harder, limp more, whatever it takes to beat these opponents. Live game opponents are different then online. You've gotta learn to beat these guys too.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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a500lbgorilla
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05-27-2005, 04:35 PM
Post subject: Re: I consistently lose online.
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#8 (permalink)
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by LeFou
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bair
I literally do not remember the last time I lost a hand on Party Poker where I did not have the better hand preflop. |
You definitely need pokertracker. It remembers this stuff for you. |
If you have your heart set on winning online, you really do need poker tracker.
-'rilla
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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UG
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Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,855
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What if you win without Poker Tracker?
Poker Tracker = More Winnings?
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Shark Bait
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 481
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Yes, it lets you easily spot weaknesses in your game, and lets you review old hands that you may have played poorly, so when a similar situation comes up, you'll play it better.
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aokrongly
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 863
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My personal opinion, and this is just an opinion, is Party Poker NL ring is the worst game in town for making decent money. I've compared it with other sites and the people who play there are cheap the pots don't get that big compared to some other sites. I make no specific recommendations, because I'm bound by contract not to release state securities. However, my advice is go find other sites to play NL ring. Look at the average % of players who see the flop - more is better. Look at average pot size. The bigger the Better. And then, if you know how to play and bet right, double the average pot size to figure your average pot size. I, personally, play 1/2 with an average pot size around $40 and about 45 - 55% preflop callers. I play very tight and bet strong post flop, trap, check raise, etc. And my average pot size is about $110 up to $200+. Literally while typing this I took a $165 pot with pocket Jacks that tripped up. Stats for the table say 55.4% on flop average pot $40.
Anyway, look at other sites. I have specific places I play SnG, different places I play MTT, and still different places I play NL Ring... and none of them are Party Poker - although I've won alot there in the past on SnG's.
Good luck. Change sites!
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