|
ArcadianRock
|
06-02-2009, 04:14 AM
Post subject: I can't get money in when I have the hand.
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
|
|
I disguise my hands as best as possible, but unless I have a drawing hand, I can't get my stack in the middle.
Mostly my problem is with sets. I try to build up the pot, but people will just fold.
On dry flops I'll check, seeing if they'll hit something, but either they don't hit anything, or draw to something better than me.
I didn't have any of these problems at $10NL. But at $25NL everyone tightens up quite a bit and only shoves with a set or more. Even over pairs they are willing to fold. Good for them I suppose, but bad for me.
At $25NL do you have to disguise your hand, or is it just simpler to keep building up the pot I guess is what I'm asking.
|
|
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
jyms
|
|
Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
|
|
There is so much wrong with what you just said it's obvious you have a lot to work on.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
If they're folding overpairs, then just bluff them
It's not like the fold-fold-fold strategy is unbeatable
you lose out on your sets, you gain on your bluffs as long as you're willing to barrel them off their hand
so what you have to be looking at is not particular hands (sets) but at particular strategies of the opponents
if you find that playing against nits is like drawing blood from a stone, then just find fish and play against them
|
|
|
|
Stacks
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
Posts: 2,605
|
|
Well... Could be a few things wrong here.
(1) You aren't balancing your ranges well enough. Meaning you could be in the mantra of betting only when you have a hand, and check/folding when you don't. Which if you are against a complete fish that calls every cbet, then sure that's a good tactic (assuming you can't bet middle/bottom pair hands for value). But if you are against even a moderately decent player then you need to balance your ranges at least a little.
(2) If they are folding so often, then you should be winning a load of small pots by cbetting, and 2-3 barreling scare cards and weak ranges. It's pretty apparent that if they value and continuing range is very tight, then they are going to have a load of hands they are folding. So tighten your value range up a bit, but open up your bluffing range.
(3) So you want to build pots with good hands, amirite? Have you tried.... betting? You said you like to check your big hands hoping people catch or something. Well that probably puts you in a fair amount of spots where you never/rarely have bluffs. Sure bet, bet, bet is a strong line for you to take. However, some of the time, and especially if they are folding often as you say they are, you will be taking that line with bluffs (instead of just straight value). However, how often are you checking the flop, then bet/3betting the turn, shoving the river as a bluff? Or checking flop through then raising turn cards, or check/raising to build that pot you want to build, but don't want to bet to do so?
Most big hands are not that difficult to play. You raise preflop and flop a set OOP. You should be cbetting more often than not. Same thing but IP, you should be betting nearly always (barring special reads/etc, like he shoves every turn when flop is checked through). I'm not saying you always do this, but most of the time you are betting/raising you strongest hands on every street. And you are also betting/raising your weaker hands if it's a spot where a bluff is +EV most of the time too. That helps balance your range. Go read up about your ranges in the "ABCD Theorem" article in the FR digest.
|
|
|
|
jyms
|
|
Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
|
|
What stacks said.
Keep in mind that they already know what they are going to do before you bet. Checking or slow playing doesn't ever make you more money except on the odd occasion where they will stack off to a C/R after catching some pair on the turn(very rare). You need to remember that calling or playing PP's for set value means you have to get the stacks in the middle to make playing them preflop actually profitable. If you aren't taking down a ton of flops with bets when missing with SC's and small PP's then you will need to be getting a much higher price when you do finally hit. like 20:1 eff. stacks preflop or more.
|
|
|
|
HarleyGuy13
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,226
|
|
If you have access to grinderschool videos jyms did a great video on sets. It really changed how I play my sets and it makes moniez!
If not there aren't really any super secrets in the video it just goes along with what stax and jyms are saying, BET!
|
"You start the game with a full pot o’ luck and an empty pot o’ experience...
The object is to fill the pot of experience before you empty the pot of luck."
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxStacksxX
Do you have testicles? If so, learn to bet like it  |
|
|
ArcadianRock
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
|
|
I guess I'll just have to keep betting and hopefully someone hits something along the way.
I think my other problem is also playing PPs weak after the flop. I'll Cbet if they fold a good amount of the time, but when they call me the first time I freeze up. Sometimes I'll fire the second barrel and they call me again and I can't help feel that they're slow playing a hand even if I have an overpair.
I just freak out every time I keep firing the barrel with AA only to have it beaten by 2pair or better. It's much easier to fold AA when it's a wet board obviously, but dry boards scare me too since lots of people go the Set-mining route.
|
|
|
|
Robb
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,072
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
I guess I'll just have to keep betting and hopefully someone hits something along the way.
I think my other problem is also playing PPs weak after the flop. I'll Cbet if they fold a good amount of the time, but when they call me the first time I freeze up. Sometimes I'll fire the second barrel and they call me again and I can't help feel that they're slow playing a hand even if I have an overpair.
I just freak out every time I keep firing the barrel with AA only to have it beaten by 2pair or better. It's much easier to fold AA when it's a wet board obviously, but dry boards scare me too since lots of people go the Set-mining route.
|
Sounds like you're playing weak-tight scared money poker, and that kind of player is VERY readable when they wake up and act like they're interested in a showdown.
Summing up a bit of what stacks said, you have to act like you're interested in showdowns with less-than-nut hands, too, or no one at 25nl will show down with you when you have the nuts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
I guess I'll just have to keep betting and hopefully someone hits something along the way.
I think my other problem is also playing PPs weak after the flop. I'll Cbet if they fold a good amount of the time, but when they call me the first time I freeze up. Sometimes I'll fire the second barrel and they call me again and I can't help feel that they're slow playing a hand even if I have an overpair.
I just freak out every time I keep firing the barrel with AA only to have it beaten by 2pair or better. It's much easier to fold AA when it's a wet board obviously, but dry boards scare me too since lots of people go the Set-mining route.
|
they can't both be calling you when you have a missed pp and folding when you have a set
and obviously if you can handread you can see when they have you beat and fold AA and when you have them crushed and you can shove AA on the river
|
|
|
|
bjsaust
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
|
|
If they fold this much, I would start betting so much they have no choice but to call me.
|
|
Just playing to improve.
|
|
Lucothefish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 701
|
|
Pretty much every angle has been covered already.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by bjsaust in IRC
I wont stay more than 10-20 hands on a table unless I've identified some easy money
|
This is important. Not just table selecting to find a high p/f and large avg pot size then joining a queue (on a fishy FR table with 9 in the queue, how many fish will be left by the time you get a seat?), but really bumhunting. Every night at $20nl on ipoker (which has 1/4 of the player base that stars does) I can find several people who think Ace high is good for a call and every bet is a bluff. Granted there’s a lot more at $10nl and lower, but these tards still exist at any stake. Critically, fish don’t notice that you’ve folded the last 20 hands in a row.
Be a lion, not a turtle. If you’ve got $10 to burn on learning how to get it in with non-nut hands, go to $2nl and bet, raise and shove every 9 out draw or better and every pair or better. TAKE THAT S**T DOWN SUCKA
|
|
<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
|
|
|
|
|
|
luco: don't semi-bluff fish, I've learned that the hard way
your equity from a semi-bluff is always partly fold equity
against a reasonable person most people make the mistake of underestimating fold equity
not so against a fish
when you bumhunt, just make sure to hit all your draws and go broke after
|
|
|
|
Lucothefish
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Cretaceous Park
Posts: 701
|
|
Bugger. That last paragraph was meant to be seperate from the bumhunt one. Notes on OP's thoughts so far got cut down in editing and now it looks like I said 'bluff the fish'.
When you DO have FE though, be a lion. And thanks iopq for pointing that out.
|
|
<@d0zer> how will you learn if I don't berate you harshly?
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
