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bhaley66
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08-07-2010, 08:35 AM
Post subject: I cant find action for my NUTS...
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: washington
Posts: 150
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I'm getting blue balls...
villain is 22/4 over 166 hands, he is very fit fold post flop. I have been in many hands
with him, and have never been able to extract much value from him. Is this standard? Or
are there tricks to induce such a villain to play at me? Because, at this point its only when he has a hand... Obviously this deck is pretty crippled. But???
No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($4.68)
CO ($1.11)
Button ($5.22)
SB ($3.27)
BB ($5)
UTG ($2.97)
Hero (UTG+1) ($7.59)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A , Q
1 fold, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 raises $0.34, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.24
Flop: ($0.71) Q , A, A (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $0.12, Hero raises $0.32, MP2 calls $0.20
Turn: ($1.35) Q (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks
River: ($1.35) 4 (2 players)
Hero ???
Total pot: $1.35
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Keith
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
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you'll get more value if you bet your monsters . He either has a hand hes going to continue with with aces on the flop or not . if not you aren't going to get paid. You check raised him on the flop .....is he really going to bet the turn and let you check raise him again?
I bet 50 on flop, 1.30 on turn and that would leave him 2.50 ish to call into a $4.71 pot if he's still with you by the river. Unless he's got an A ,a Q or he's an idiot he won't be though.
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JKDS
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 1,024
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Whats villain's range when he 3bets you?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OngBonga
But no, jkds is lolvillager and anyone who wants to string him up is sighbad.
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Hoopy
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Riverballs
Posts: 777
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You are smashed by his 3bet range {AK,QQ+ at best} so fold pre even though you are deep.
His range on the flop is now 1 combo of QQ, 4 of AK and 6 of KK. I really like leading because even though he is fit/fold postflop he'll still peel one or 2 streets with KK, and QQ/AK will raise and you can 3bet/get it in. If you choose to c/r I'd make it bigger so stacks are easier to get in and don't check turn bet it to build a pot.
As played on the river he almost always has KK, I'd bet like $1.10 quickly.
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StarGrinder
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: UTG (aka USA)
Posts: 683
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Fold pre
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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You can't get action if you don't bet. These guys are right, if your opponent only has abluff catcher then you have to bet. Nobody is going to bluff into this scary board w/KK or QQ. AK is calling any bet. Anything that folds to a bet is not betting into you.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Please fold pre.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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AQ sucks ass here
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bhaley66
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: washington
Posts: 150
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I understand that I won't get any value if I don't bet, I was trying to mix it up and get something different out of him, right or wrong was my question. Like I said, I have been in quite a few hands w/villain and he has never to my memory continued more than one street.
As far as folding pre, I understand with the ranges you all put him on, and now that I look again at the range I put him on, I definitely should have, as I only had 48% equity. I put him on TT+, AJ+, KQ. I understand if this is too wide of a range, I'm working on it...
So, all in all, this goes back to the basics, If I hit, I value bet, no matter the villain, correct? Also, of course, continue messing w/pokerstove to see how hands are against certain ranges...
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jyms
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Tilting Mod
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,836
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If he never continues more than one street, then betting is still right. Picking up dead money is a good reason to bet if your opponent will not put anymore money in without catching up.
I fold pre too BTW with villains stats
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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Your preflop range is too wide. The clue is in the gap between this guy's vpip and pfr; he's most likely a pretty passive player preflop. Hence his 3 betting range will actually be tighter than most villain's in this spot. Go with something like [JJ+ AK] unless you have information to the contrary. Even giving him Jj could be seen as generous.
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bhaley66
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: washington
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
Your preflop range is too wide. The clue is in the gap between this guy's vpip and pfr; he's most likely a pretty passive player preflop. Hence his 3 betting range will actually be tighter than most villain's in this spot. Go with something like [JJ+ AK] unless you have information to the contrary. Even giving him Jj could be seen as generous.
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TY for the explanation...
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
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Doubt he evens 3bs JJ/QQ and AK, I mean his opening range is something like TT+/AQ probably(lil wider then 4% but it's safe to assume he isn't opening any wider then this) in every position. So his 3b range is probably like KK+, fold pre obviously. Bet flop yourself since his range is KK at this point. Bet turn. Bet river. Sizing depends on how stationy he is. 3streets should be relatively easy since people won't fold KK on paired AA boards ever.
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OngBonga
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: England
Posts: 1,053
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If he has anything other than KK here I'll tear my arm off and feed it to the dog.
Why have you got a HUD running if you're not going to make use of the information? This is exactly the kind of spot that I use mine for... 4% pfr? I know where I'm at if he 3bets me. My continuing range to his 3bet is simply any pair, I'm set mining with 22-QQ (which means folding on any missed flop, even QQ on a 234 flop) because we're both deep and the implied odds large, and I'm 4betting him pre with KK+. I probably fold AK to this guy pf. At least with 222 I know I'm winning the vast majority of the time, with AK on a Kxx flop I'm still probably losing or chopping at best.
As for getting paid off, well, it got more difficult on the turn. He's either folding his KK or chopping with AK. I'd just shove, occasionally you get a dumbass hero call, and if he folds he doesn't see what you called his 3bet with.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
ongies gonna ong
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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fwiw, preflop is a super standard fold against a 15/12 with a 10% preflop 3b, unless you wanna 4b bluff.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BooG690
I just wanted to share singing vaginas.  |
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
fwiw, preflop is a super standard fold against a 15/12 with a 10% preflop 3b, unless you wanna 4b bluff.
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10% pf 3b????? thats like 22+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo or 99+,A9s+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+,KJo+
you really fold vs that? i guess oop 4bet bluffing becomes the best option
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philly and the phanatics
10% pf 3b????? thats like 22+,AJs+,KQs,AJo+,KQo or 99+,A9s+,KTs+,QJs,AJo+,KJo+
you really fold vs that? i guess oop 4bet bluffing becomes the best option
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Does a 15% VPIP mean he's playing 15% of hands from all positions regardless of the situation too?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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philly and the phanatics
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Does a 15% VPIP mean he's playing 15% of hands from all positions regardless of the situation too?
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obviously not but he has position on us so you think he would be doing it wider than if he didnt...hes like in the high jack, hardly some early position.....nevermind i have been slapped by the mighty trout of the lord and see the light
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surviva316
fwiw, preflop is a super standard fold against a 15/12 with a 10% preflop 3b, unless you wanna 4b bluff.
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bhaley66
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Straight
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: washington
Posts: 150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Does a 15% VPIP mean he's playing 15% of hands from all positions regardless of the situation too?
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Call me stupid... I don't quite get what you are trying to imply. Philly seems to have gotten it; do you mind elaborating?
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhaley66
Call me stupid... I don't quite get what you are trying to imply. Philly seems to have gotten it; do you mind elaborating?
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That just because his stat says he's 3-betting 10% doesn't mean you can turn your brain off and just say he's 3-betting 10% of hands here.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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parislad
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: ~Manchester~
Posts: 75
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Pot the flop after a few seconds as he won't be folding AK/KK in that instance
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Assumption is the mother of all fuck ups
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Icanhastreebet
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: In the big blind, cold calling your opens, making you tilt.
Posts: 995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
That just because his stat says he's 3-betting 10% doesn't mean you can turn your brain off and just say he's 3-betting 10% of hands here.
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lol, itt spoon makes joke
but seriously why would you ever want to flat AQ here v just about anyone.
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