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I appear to be having QQ issues

  
 
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Kits
Old 07-27-2006, 11:22 AM     Post subject: I appear to be having QQ issues #1 (permalink)  
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Kits
So far I appear to be having some difficulties with QQ. It is my worst performing starting hand by a longway. Can someone please have a look at the hands below and give me some feedback on any thing you find blatently retarded or just poor play? Ta.

(Apologies for not using the hand converter but I just can't seem to get it to work.)

No reads as I had only been at the table for a few hands.

***** Hand History for Game 4780195189 *****
$25 NL Texas Holdem - Saturday, July 22, 00:38:47 ET 2006
Table Table 95570 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 9
Seat 1: Kem_Card ( $33.79 )
Seat 2: umpdream ( $24.96 )
Seat 3: motown867 ( $27.54 )
Seat 4: MobogDotCom ( $8.98 )
Seat 5: dr_hebert ( $8.40 )
Seat 7: jritter17 ( $17.33 )
Seat 9: Spencer1968 ( $11.05 )
Seat 10: Ehren777 ( $10.60 )
Seat 8: Kiton01 ( $24.25 )
Kiton01 posts small blind [$0.10].
Spencer1968 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kiton01 [ Qc Qs ]
Ehren777 calls [$0.25].
Kem_Card raises [$1].
umpdream folds.
motown867 folds.
MobogDotCom folds.
dr_hebert folds.
jritter17 folds.
Kiton01 raises [$2.90].
Spencer1968 folds.
Ehren777 folds.
Kem_Card raises [$9].
Kiton01 calls [$7].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 2s, 7h, 3c ]
umpdream: sweet flop
Kiton01 is all-In [$14.25]
Kem_Card calls [$14.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9d ]
** Dealing River ** [ Jh ]
Kiton01 shows [ Qc, Qs ] a pair of queens.
Kem_Card shows [ Ah, As ] a pair of aces.
Kem_Card wins $46.55 from the main pot with a pair of aces.

I was really unsure the best way to play this hand in it's entirety. Should I have folded pre-flop or pushed?

Similar type of hand below. Thoroughly confused me! No reads as this was my second hand at the table

***** Hand History for Game 4817341583 *****
$25 NL Texas Holdem - Thursday, July 27, 05:36:50 ET 2006
Table Table 98216 (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: NBphantom ( $3.35 )
Seat 3: xXxLurkerxXx ( $26.15 )
Seat 5: JCM777 ( $17.63 )
Seat 6: PabloTramor ( $10.38 )
Seat 7: jason8022 ( $22.98 )
Seat 8: Lord_Nibbler ( $33.55 )
Seat 9: wookie_78 ( $25.20 )
Seat 10: Beanzer84 ( $49.11 )
Seat 4: Kiton01 ( $21.75 )
Seat 1: Antras ( $25 )
wookie_78 posts small blind [$0.10].
Beanzer84 posts big blind [$0.25].
Antras posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kiton01 [ Qh Qs ]
Antras raises [$1].
xXxLurkerxXx folds.
Kiton01 raises [$3].
JCM777 folds.
PabloTramor calls [$3].
jason8022 folds.
Lord_Nibbler folds.
wookie_78 folds.
Beanzer84 folds.
Antras calls [$1.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 6c, 8c, 7d ]
Antras checks.
Kiton01 bets [$5].
PabloTramor folds.
Antras is all-In [$22]
Kiton01 folds.
Antras does not show cards.
Antras wins $35.40

My game really falls apart when overcards appear. I seem to constantly get burned with QQ and KK when someone limps in with Ax then calls my raise and A hits on the flop. Should I be picking these spots better and be laying my hand down?

***** Hand History for Game 4725871845 *****
$25 NL Texas Holdem - Friday, July 14, 07:45:47 ET 2006
Table Table 98216 (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: RdKck ( $48.47 )
Seat 2: Elegidos ( $25.25 )
Seat 5: GandD888 ( $17.50 )
Seat 6: MenashaJim ( $25.77 )
Seat 8: nohands12 ( $19.75 )
Seat 7: Kiton01 ( $21.70 )
Seat 4: grandmg ( $22.50 )
Seat 10: NUBnoon ( $6.35 )
Seat 9: JoeSchmoe226 ( $11.16 )
Seat 3: Djtowery ( $4.60 )
nohands12 posts small blind [$0.10].
JoeSchmoe226 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kiton01 [ Qh Qc ]
NUBnoon folds.
RdKck folds.
Elegidos folds.
Djtowery folds.
grandmg folds.
GandD888 folds.
MenashaJim calls [$0.25].
Kiton01 raises [$1].
nohands12 folds.
JoeSchmoe226 folds.
MenashaJim calls [$0.75].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, As, Jc ]
MenashaJim bets [$1].
Kiton01 raises [$3].
MenashaJim calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
MenashaJim checks.
Kiton01 bets [$6].
MenashaJim calls [$6].
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
MenashaJim checks.
Kiton01 checks.
MenashaJim shows [ Qd, Ac ] a pair of aces.
Kiton01 doesnt show [ Qh, Qc ] a pair of queens.
MenashaJim wins $19.35 from the main pot with a pair of aces.
Djtowery has left the table.
NUBnoon has left the table.

***** Hand History for Game 4785799623 *****
$25 NL Texas Holdem - Saturday, July 22, 20:17:40 ET 2006
Table Table 96913 (Real Money)
Seat 3 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: countryair23 ( $20.95 )
Seat 2: AW_RR ( $11.10 )
Seat 3: jonnyserf ( $25.55 )
Seat 8: JeffsJules ( $31.46 )
Seat 7: Kiton01 ( $22.60 )
Seat 4: Scarface0767 ( $16.54 )
Seat 9: PaladinMyke ( $23.80 )
Seat 5: magiczen ( $28.40 )
Seat 10: bikslick ( $22.30 )
Seat 6: Aztec001 ( $13.10 )
Scarface0767 posts small blind [$0.10].
magiczen posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Kiton01 [ Qc Qs ]
Aztec001 folds.
Kiton01 raises [$1].
JeffsJules folds.
PaladinMyke calls [$1].
bikslick folds.
countryair23 folds.
AW_RR folds.
jonnyserf folds.
Scarface0767 folds.
magiczen folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 4h, Th, Kd ]
Kiton01 bets [$2].
PaladinMyke raises [$6].
Kiton01 folds.
PaladinMyke does not show cards.
PaladinMyke wins $10.05

Thanks in advance.........
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trev
Old 07-27-2006, 11:59 AM #2 (permalink)  
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The second hand you posted is the most interesting I think. I'm hardly the most experienced poster here but this is my take for what it's worth -

I think that the most important information here is that villain rasied preflop UTG. This rules out alot of hands that would beat your.

I dont think we can put him on anything that gives him 2 pair or a straight. I also don't think he can have an overpair - AA would virtually always reraise preflop, KK would reraise you at least 95% of the time - unless you have any reads this is a reasonable assumption.

At $25NL I see very few people raise preflop with low pairs (ie. 66-88), so a set is unlikely. Again, in the absense of any reads I would think he doesn't have a set.

Therefore, I think this hand is a call, and the majority of the time I would expect to see villain holding JJ. Perhaps TT.
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XTR1000
Old 07-27-2006, 12:50 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i think trev is right. with 2 callers behind aces or kings would have probably raised. not an easy call though.


btw, here´s how QQ could be working in an unexpected way

$5 + .50 SNG



Everest Poker — Details zur Runde
Runden-ID: 432629975
Tisch-ID: -17541432
Spielmodus: Realmoney
Turnier-Tisch: Ararat-24
Spieltyp: Hold'em
Blinds: 5.00/10.00
Einsatz: 10.00/10.00
Währung: USD
Startdatum: 2006-07-24 GMT
Startzeit: 22:02:21 GMT



Sitz-Ordnung:

ASHURI ist an Platz 4 mit 385.50.
XTR1000 ist an Platz 5 mit 134.50.
Elmo_Letsgo ist an Platz 6 mit 80.00.

Blinds setzen:

Der Button ist an Platz 6.
ASHURI setzt das Small Blind von 5.00.
XTR1000 setzt das Big Blind von 10.00.

Austeilung der Pocketkarten:

ASHURI: -- --
XTR1000: Qh Qc
Elmo_Letsgo: -- --

Pre-Flop:
Elmo_Letsgo sagt "thx"
Elmo_Letsgo raises 80.00.
ASHURI legt ab.
XTR1000 hält 70.00.


Flop (10c 4c 3c 9h 5c):

Showdown:
Elmo_Letsgo zeigt Qd Qs.
Elmo_Letsgo hat 5c 9h 10c Qd Qs.: one pair
XTR1000 zeigt Qh Qc.
XTR1000 hat 3c 4c 5c 10c Qc.: Flush
Elmo_Letsgo ist entfernt.


Pot Zusammenfassung:
Gesamter Pot: 165.00
XTR1000 gewinnt 165.00.
Für diese Runde wurde kein Hausanteil einbehalten.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred View Post
xtr stand for exotic tranny retards
yo
 
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Thee One
Old 07-27-2006, 01:43 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Ok, Hand #1...That's poker. Vil 3-bet pre-flop so AA/KK were definately in his hand range...hell AA/KK is in anyone's hand range when they 3-bet pre. I don't think you can NOT call his AI with your hand and the board the way it is, unless you know for sure he's a nit and his 3-bet range is solely AA/KK.

#2...I'm calling this one. 9/10 Villian has JJ/TT here and is hoping you have AK.

#3...that's fine. No problem with the way this was played.

#4...that's just weak tight. Re-raise to define, this could be a c-bet pick-off attempt, or he could have a weak K and be willing to lay it down to a re-raise. There is a huge range villan calls a 4x raise preflop at $25NL, you likely have the best hand here and just gave the pot away.
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biondino
Old 07-27-2006, 04:03 PM #5 (permalink)  
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It's a 4-bet pre-flop from villain, right? It's ONLY AA/KK I'm afraid - time to wave a wistful goodbye to QQ.
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Thee One
Old 07-27-2006, 08:33 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biondino
It's a 4-bet pre-flop from villain, right? It's ONLY AA/KK I'm afraid - time to wave a wistful goodbye to QQ.
Is it 4? I only counted 3.
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biondino
Old 07-28-2006, 11:05 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Limp (by a 3rd party), raise, re-raise, re-re-raise = 4 bets, no? The villain has already raised the original limp when our hero re-raises him.
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Irisheyes
Old 07-28-2006, 12:01 PM     Post subject: Re: I appear to be having QQ issues #8 (permalink)  
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Hand 1) Easy fold at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kits
Kiton01 raises [$2.90].
Spencer1968 folds.
Ehren777 folds.
Kem_Card raises [$9].
Kiton01 folds
Hand 2) Bet more on the flop so you are not giving anyone odds to draw. I bet the full pot. Call the AI because you will se a draw here alot.

Hand 3)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kits
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, As, Jc ]
MenashaJim bets [$1]. <- Folding here is not too bad.
Kiton01 raises [$3]. <-- Raising here is not too bad either
MenashaJim calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
MenashaJim checks.
Kiton01 bets [$6]. <-- Deffinitly do not bet here. You are obviously beat.

Last hand is good.
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Thee One
Old 07-28-2006, 01:48 PM     Post subject: Re: I appear to be having QQ issues #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kits
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, As, Jc ]
MenashaJim bets [$1]. <- Folding here is not too bad.
Kiton01 raises [$3]. <-- Raising here is not too bad either
MenashaJim calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
MenashaJim checks.
Kiton01 bets [$6]. <-- Deffinitly do not bet here. You are obviously beat.
Is he obviously beat here? I see this lead into the PFR bluff all the time at $25NL and $50NL. Normally they will call a raise and fold to a turn bet after checking. I think he's obviously beat on the turn, but the flop could be a standard donk bluff I think, even with the A on the flop, probably because of it.

Am I wrong?
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-28-2006, 01:55 PM #10 (permalink)  
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half the problem is also with how cold you're running with QQ. You seem to be flopping it as an overpair and still having it be behind recently.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
 
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Kits
Old 07-28-2006, 02:19 PM     Post subject: Re: I appear to be having QQ issues #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Hand 1) Easy fold at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kits
Kiton01 raises [$2.90].
Spencer1968 folds.
Ehren777 folds.
Kem_Card raises [$9].
Kiton01 folds
Thank you - noted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thee One
#4...that's just weak tight. Re-raise to define, this could be a c-bet pick-off attempt, or he could have a weak K and be willing to lay it down to a re-raise. There is a huge range villan calls a 4x raise preflop at $25NL, you likely have the best hand here and just gave the pot away.
I absolutely agree but this was an example of where I had been stacked in the past on similar situations and was all 'gun shy'. That's the side of poker I'm really trying to work on - making decisions for all the right reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
half the problem is also with how cold you're running with QQ. You seem to be flopping it as an overpair and still having it be behind recently.
Basically that seems to be the primary reason of my troubles but I thought I should double check with you guys for some improvements to help anyway. Thanks all.
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Irisheyes
Old 07-28-2006, 03:13 PM     Post subject: Re: I appear to be having QQ issues #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thee One
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irisheyes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kits
** Dealing Flop ** [ Tc, As, Jc ]
MenashaJim bets [$1]. <- Folding here is not too bad.
Kiton01 raises [$3]. <-- Raising here is not too bad either
MenashaJim calls [$2].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6h ]
MenashaJim checks.
Kiton01 bets [$6]. <-- Deffinitly do not bet here. You are obviously beat.
Is he obviously beat here? I see this lead into the PFR bluff all the time at $25NL and $50NL. Normally they will call a raise and fold to a turn bet after checking. I think he's obviously beat on the turn, but the flop could be a standard donk bluff I think, even with the A on the flop, probably because of it.

Am I wrong?
OK well not as obviously as I made it sound perhaps. Raising the donk bet is ok, its when the villian calls that raise I get worried. Other then a hand that beats us, his only other likely holding is a flush draw but I don't think its worth trying to protect our hand from that possibility on the turn. We are already beat too often to make that a good idea.
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Xanadu
Old 07-28-2006, 03:44 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Hand 3, AJT is a bad flop for QQ. You want to see a showdown as cheaply as possible and hope for a K to fall. You don't want to call very thin because your implied odds are low if you catch a K. Without top 2pair or the straight, you can lose a lot of money when the flop comes all broadways. You want to be the guy that flops the straight and takes the other guy's stack. It is way too dangerous to call big bets here with only second pair.
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