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I am break even UTG in 6max. Talk to me.

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Miffed22001

07-16-2006, 03:53 PM Post subject: I am break even UTG in 6max. Talk to me.

#1 (permalink)

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I win stacks from the CO and button and im almost break even on the bb over a large sample, yet i make small amounts of money from UTG.

Typical ranges
Obv non(unlikely) dominated hands raised
AK/AQ/AJ/KQ/AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT/99 (sometimes 88/77 depending on the table
Limp smaller pps if the table is loose or i have highly aggressive players behind, otherwsie raise too.
WIll also consider raising QJs/KJs/JTs/Axs (particularly ATs/A9s)
Add other suited connector hands like 89s/67s etc as a mix up tactic, esp at aggressive tables.

I will obv limp a wide range depedning on the tables style too.
So why the fuck arent i winning anything?

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Lukie

07-16-2006, 04:03 PM Post subject: Re: I am break even UTG in 6max. Talk to me.

#2 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I will obv limp a wide range depedning on the tables style too.

Quote:

So why the fuck arent i winning anything?

try to limp as least often as possible here. If table dynamics allow it, try to always raise the smaller pairs UTG.

Why aren't you winning anything?

hmmm, preflop seems fairly standard, although having a standard range is exploitable (not that anyone is doing that to you).

So I'm going to narrow it down to:

too small of a sample size (variance)
getting outplayed post-flop (perhaps work on your play when you are out of position?)

UTG should be profitable in any game.

Miffed22001

07-16-2006, 05:10 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I will obv limp a wide range depedning on the tables style too.

Quote:

So why the fuck arent i winning anything?

i thought of both if these and HHs say not, im rarely getting action from UTG if im honest which makes a difference and its not often i get outplayed as ill become a calling station if im not sure (and im the same in other positions so its hardly a difference)

Im only really limping if i have bad players behind who will make raising pps -ev but will pay my set if i limp they raise and i hit.
80k hands too small? how many before i get a semi-decent idea.

Pelion

07-16-2006, 09:27 PM

#4 (permalink)

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what hands are you winning/losing with? If a hand is a loser try to figure out why..

e.g. 44 is a loser but 22-66 are fine then its probably just varience.

22-66 are losers you are probably going to far when you dont set.

If you find that its a certain group of hands that are losing then fix it or stop playing them.

I personally struggle with the low PPs in EP when im trying to play them aggressivly.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Renton

07-16-2006, 11:28 PM

#5 (permalink)

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i am kinda a sixmax fish but I basically raise all pairs, offsuit broadways AJ AQ AK KQ, and any two suited cards higher than nine, and limp nothing.

Miffed22001

07-16-2006, 11:42 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

i am kinda a sixmax fish but I basically raise all pairs, offsuit broadways AJ AQ AK KQ, and any two suited cards higher than nine, and limp nothing.

youve seen my posts on here, i dont limp without reason and im certainly never going to be labelled 'passive'
Ive already had to tone down the pfring because i end up in too many uncontrollable situations because of my table image and post flop aggression from position. This just creates a mess OOP.

If its worth anything i make less than 10% the money UTG than i do in any other position. Hands like AK/AQ/AJ are ok but not great, becasue people always give me credit for holding these UTG. Semi dominated hands like ATs/A9 are break even becasue im finding i wont overplay them oop like i might from the CO or button (HJ even) becasue im more scared of being dominated (that probably a point i could address, but i dont want to be all in with A9 vs AT type situations)
Dominated Kx hands dont do so well, they are actually marginal losers, like KJ KTs and KQ all of which i would raise if in the right circumstance. Im considering mucking KTo/s from now on.
haha QQ is a moster loser (variance) no nthing to discuss there.
Sooted 10+ cards are big winners. Marginal overpair hands arent so good, like 77/88/99. I think i get called by overs too often from later positions and end up either betting into big cards and repping (and almost being forced to showdown if i get called) or else im getting pushed off perhaps (thats certainly something to look into perhaps, but i hate c/c turn lines followed by bet fold to reraise river lines)
There seems to be 1 or 2 odd looking loses with small pps, perhaps thats pushing or c/ring all in with draws that opps arent going to fold too becasue they cant put me on a trashy-low pp (probable leak)

Beyond that, i cant see too much. Possibly maybe not c-betting with hands like T9s into AKx flops becasue i expect a king to call tehre a lot against me if i were raising in position.

thoughts? (im a fish? :P )
Also, fwiw, im 16/9 utg with 26%w2sd and 52won@sd (both are 5% lower than anywhere else on the table)

johnny_fish

07-30-2006, 08:14 PM

#7 (permalink)

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I doubt it if raising 98s/JTs/QTs/KTs/QJs UTG is +EV.

CavemanWins

08-11-2006, 07:07 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: Atlanta, Ga USA

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Quote:

I doubt it if raising 98s/JTs/QTs/KTs/QJs UTG is +EV.

Is calling them to flop +ev?

andy-akb

08-11-2006, 07:30 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

I doubt it if raising 98s/JTs/QTs/KTs/QJs UTG is +EV.

Would playing those hands UTG for a raise make your big PPs more profitable?

At most tables if this is -EV it cant be by much and shrinking your raising range makes you a lot more predictable.

Miffed22001

08-11-2006, 11:02 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny_fish

I doubt it if raising 98s/JTs/QTs/KTs/QJs UTG is +EV.

Would playing those hands UTG for a raise make your big PPs more profitable?

At most tables if this is -EV it cant be by much and shrinking your raising range makes you a lot more predictable.

this is my problem.

my utg range si so predictable, perhaps so is my utg+1 whreas in the co/button i can literaly play any two vs the majority of opponents and naturally show profit from position.

im alos the type of player who has moved simply auto c-betting after pfr so c-betting and/or c/r from utg gives a lot of infrmation about my hand.

Miffed22001

08-11-2006, 11:03 PM

#11 (permalink)

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btw, this is still a problem.

johnny_fish

08-12-2006, 05:21 PM

#12 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

btw, this is still a problem.

I always win from EP, the problem is I win the same amount in LP. It should be way higher right?

If you teach me profitable button play, then I'll teach you EP

Miffed22001

08-12-2006, 05:29 PM

#13 (permalink)

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button play?

play more hands. Raise hands that play well against big stacks and hands they wont put you on raising from the button.
dont just auto c-bet, let them bet weaker hands.

utg. Im just gona fold all but AA then ill win right?

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