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dranger7070
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03-24-2009, 04:59 AM
Post subject: (hypothetical) OOP with a one pair hand on a 3 flush board.
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Say its HU, you in the BB vs BTN. PF everyone folds to the BTN, who limps, SB completes, you have KdQd and raise it to 5xbb.
BTN calls, SB folds.
Flop comes Ks9s2s
Hero???
Do you lead out here? How much? c/c? It seems like c/f would be weak. b/f?
Say you lead for about 2/3 pot, and he just flats.
Turn blank.
Now what?
I just seem to do really poorly in these types of hands.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I think the calibre of the opponent is going to justify my play.
I bet fold against all but the bluffiest of players.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here? 
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Gotta go for more reads but I can't really see a situation in which I'd ever check. Soooo many worse hands, in most cases, will call. I'm most likely b/not folding vs most players too. In your example I'd almost always bet turn. I mean seriously think about ranges with certain types of opponents and what all they'd be calling with. If turn was a blank and he is passive and raises that kind of sucks but I'd rarely fold.
One other point is that I put limpers on Axs/Axo a lot so a monotone board with an A on it and we hold like AQ/AJ whatever I'd be more happy than in this flop of Kxx
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Ok, I also like the b/f line here, but say you bet out with the intention of folding to raise but he just flats and turn is a blank.
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Ragnar4
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Billings, Montana
Posts: 1,284
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I was talking about my turn action there dranger.
if he flats and river blanks... I bet again for value.
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The older I get, the more I start wondering; Just what in the hell is going on here?
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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ah ok i was thinking more along the lines of flop to turn play really.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Put some ranges down please. I don't see how this thread is anywhere close to being helpful to anyone reading.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Yup sorry kmind lol. Im in a session right now, but I had a hand like this one which is why I posted it. I'll come up with a range after I'm done.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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All good, I'm going to sleep but better see some ranges in the mornin'!
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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72o+ Thats my range  but in all seriousness, will do.
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dranger7070
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Wake up in the mornin feelin' like P. Diddy
Posts: 2,524
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Ok, on the turn after limp/calling PF, and calling a lead on the flop I think his range is gonna look something like, 22, 99, KK, TT-QQ, all Ax with A of spades, pretty much all Qx with Q of spades, made flushes, two pair, gutshots with a FD, pairs + FD.
He is obv going to have more draws than made hands in his range than anything on this board and given the action. Its not an exact hand for hand range, but theres so much he can have here, I think its easier just to generalize.
Now given his range, is best line to b/f flop and turn? Or do you think bet flop, c/f blank turn, and v-bet blank river is best line? Obv c/f if another spade hits. Or should we just be trying to get this to showdown without committing any more chips?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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b/f or b/shove depending on villain, on every street.
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Carroters
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Da Amberlamps
Posts: 2,216
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b/f flop vs an unknown, same with turn. If river blanks I might c/c to indiuce in this spot because it's really realy hard for him to have a hand he can bet for value without raising at any point in the hand and he may often just have a missed fd if he's bad (suggested by his limp).
If he's a total station though I'd b/f river because there'll be a ton of worse kings in his range that will call a bet.
I don't like continuing on the flop If I'm raised often at all in this spot unless I know the villain is really aggro/spewy.
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kmind
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
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Man my ranges for unknowns are a lot different. I think they can be raising the flop with worse Kings a lot as well as random high spade draws, esp. nut NFD. Sure they'll always raise with sets and made flushes but it's hard flopping flushes and usually 99 would raise preflop sooo.
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surviva316
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Confusing people with my liberal biblicisms
Posts: 1,625
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i'd feel much more comfortable on an Axx board or if I had TPTK as opposed to TP2K (of course if i'm playing a thinking opponent then AK isn't part of his range anyway). a limp from the button as opposed to a steal prolly means low pocket pairs or suited somethings (Axs, SD's or one gappers), so the majority of his range dominates me here. like the cbet, am wary of firing again on the turn
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