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Pelion

12-10-2007, 08:09 PM Post subject: HUDs

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

A survey.

Just for my interest Id like to see who uses a HUD here and what they are playing. Posted here so both 6max and FR guys notice it. Can you please reply in the way below.

Name: Pelion
Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 4
HUD: Yes (but thinking of phasing it out).

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

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meeloche

12-10-2007, 08:17 PM

#2 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 2,131

50nl 6 max
4 tables
I think it's a big help for me, if your thinking of phasing it out do you have the right combo of stats on your hud?

This thread was helpful for me I use a similar variation to this:

http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-37745.htm

2_Thumbs_Up

12-10-2007, 08:18 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Apr 2006

Location: Sweden

Posts: 271

Name: 2_Thumbs_Up
Game: 400NL
Number of tables: 6-9 (depending on whether I play FR or SH)
HUD: Yes

Warpe

12-10-2007, 08:27 PM Post subject: Re: HUDs

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Canuckistan

Posts: 3,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

A survey.

add a poll. me like polls.

BankItDrew

12-10-2007, 08:44 PM

#5 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

game: 200NL
tables: 10-11
HUD: no

Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!

Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?

Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?

PapalRage

12-10-2007, 09:48 PM

#6 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Notre Dame

Posts: 309

bots obviously don't need HUDs

game 100-200nl FR
tables: 6-8 depending on stakes
HUD: no but i think i might try to add one to see if it helps.

ndultimate.

Warpe

12-10-2007, 09:53 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: Canuckistan

Posts: 3,905

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapalRage

HUG: no but i think i might try to add one to see if it helps.

awwww

PapalRage

12-10-2007, 10:04 PM

#8 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Location: Notre Dame

Posts: 309

whoops, i think hugs while playing would be distracting...kinda like i have found HUDs in my limited experience with them.

ndultimate.

Jager

12-11-2007, 12:37 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 754

7-8 tables 6 max 200nl
HUD: yes

As a side note I played for several months with out one, but I find I use it almost every hand now. I think its value is in what stats are in your HUD.

"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."

bigspenda73

12-11-2007, 12:47 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

bigspenda73 will become famous soon enough

Name: ipndedurmumsbutt
Number of tables: 1 coffee, one end
Huggles: Yes please

bigspenda73

12-11-2007, 12:48 AM

#11 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jul 2006

Location: Pwnsylvania

Posts: 7,546

Alright alright I'll bite

Name: Spenda
Number of tables: 6 6max; 9 Full Ring; 2 HU
HUD: Yes

jyms

12-11-2007, 01:09 AM

#12 (permalink)

Tilting Mod

Join Date: Feb 2006

Posts: 4,836

I'd use two Huds If I can find out how.

YouTube - Classified - "Oh... Canada" [Official Video]

kmind

12-11-2007, 02:38 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: Not Giving In

Posts: 4,240

Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 4
HUD: Yes (but not thinking of phasing it out).

Ash256

12-11-2007, 04:17 AM

#14 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: UK

Posts: 1,760

Name: R3sistance
Number of tables: Used to be 8-16, but now I've moved sites to a place with shitty software, 4-6 for now.
HUD: Hell yeah.

Listen to my music

Vrax

12-11-2007, 04:57 AM Post subject: Re: HUDs

#15 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

Name: Vrax
Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 8
HUD: No (incompatible HH)

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

Kagey

12-11-2007, 05:39 AM

#16 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 158

Game: 100NL/ 50NL
No. tables. 2@100nl/ 4@50nl
HUD: Yes, but played for a year without one (without any obvious effect on my win/loss rate)

Seabass

12-11-2007, 08:18 AM

#17 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Location: trying not to die

Posts: 205

Game: 200NL SH /400NL FR
Number of tables: 4-7.
HUD: No/Yes. I havnt used it before but I'm adding it atm. Thinking that some basic info cant hurt as long as I dont base my game around the stats alone.

Taxi

12-11-2007, 08:54 AM

#18 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Feb 2007

Location: Lincoln, UK

Posts: 226

Game: 100NL 6max
Tables: 4
HUD: yes. I mainly use it for identifying player types, not really for basing specific plays on specific stats.

BigPapi

12-14-2007, 10:36 AM

#19 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Oct 2007

Location: Rotterdam, Holland

Posts: 437

Game: 50NL 6max
Tables: 4
HUD: yes, only recently though. still figuring it out, but I do think it can be valuable.

bode

12-14-2007, 12:35 PM

#20 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

Game: 50nl-100nl 6max
# tables: 8
HUD: ldo

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

zook

12-14-2007, 04:55 PM

#21 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 3,676

Game: 2/4 -> 5/10 6max
Tables: 4-6
HUD: hell yes

bode

12-14-2007, 05:42 PM

#22 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

i still fail to see why people wouldnt use a HUD. I understand the notion that we should be getting real reads on people, but its not like a HUD can hurt.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

biondino

12-14-2007, 05:49 PM

#23 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

Name: SandInMyVagina
Game: 50nl/pl 5max & 6max
Tables: 3-5
HUD: Yes (gametime+)

Galapogos

12-14-2007, 06:40 PM

#24 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: The Loser's Lounge

Posts: 2,322

Game: 100NL 6-max
Tables: 6
HUD: Yessir

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.

Miffed22001

12-14-2007, 08:23 PM

#25 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Game 200nl/400nl 6max
Tables 4 (sometimes 6)
Hud rarely (and i still use GT even then)

Pelion

12-15-2007, 02:12 AM

#26 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

bode ist (yea you are) I know players who use HUDs as a crutch and I dont want that to be me.

Miff sometimes you confuse me

Pelion wtf is ur problem, why does ur room smell of egg sandwhich right now?!?! - best not to ask eh?

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Dislexsik

12-15-2007, 10:50 AM

#27 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: On the grind

Posts: 832

Game 200NL 6 max (300NL because its in €)
Tables: 5-6
Hud

ffcourse

Miffed22001

12-15-2007, 05:16 PM

#28 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

ignoring the randomness, why?

Pelion

12-15-2007, 05:33 PM

#29 (permalink)

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Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

i was drunk and thought u said u didnt use PT but you used GT+...

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

wufwugy

12-15-2007, 07:22 PM

#30 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 1,660

Lol at people who dont use hud.

Miffed22001

12-15-2007, 08:56 PM

#31 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Lol at people who dont use hud.

lol at those who couldnt just beat their opponents without needing an aide.

My old arguement, your opponents are so bad most of the time in micro/small stakes, you dont need to know what they are doing to beat them.
Midstakes is much different and i can see why a HUD works. Also, odd that a lot of balla's dont use HUD's. Gabe for example never has

bode

12-15-2007, 09:53 PM

#32 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

My old arguement, your opponents are so bad most of the time in micro/small stakes, you dont need to know what they are doing to beat them.

you dont NEED a HUD to beat the micro/small stakes, but it only helps to beat it for a greater winrate assuming you dont use it as a crutch.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Robb

12-15-2007, 10:15 PM

#33 (permalink)

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Posts: 3,072

Robb is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

Lol at people who dont use hud.

6-max
9 tables
NL10/NL25

Miffed and I have gone back and forth on this one before. I simultaneously added the HUD and active participation in FTR to my poker hobby, and became a winning player almost overnight. No offense, because FTR is awesome, and has helped my game. But the HUD has helped more, letting me learn things faster and understand WHY plays work and what common situations I'm facing. They actually work well together, seeing a HH and analysis, understanding the villain's HUD stats and tendencies, then incorporating FTR advice into a new line or way to attack.

Pelion

12-15-2007, 10:41 PM

#34 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

They actually work well together, seeing a HH and analysis, understanding the villain's HUD stats and tendencies, then incorporating FTR advice into a new line or way to attack.

I agree with you there. But I already understand ranges now. I dont think there is much more that using a HUD can teach me... but there might be something that not using one could teach me.

Im sure that in the short term using a HUD will boost my winrate, but does anyone think that in the long term you become a better player without one?

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

Miffed22001

12-16-2007, 12:56 AM

#35 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

They actually work well together, seeing a HH and analysis, understanding the villain's HUD stats and tendencies, then incorporating FTR advice into a new line or way to attack.

yes, thsi has been my point all along. So many 100nl players who cannot turn off their HUDs and explain their decisions without stats.

Pelion

12-16-2007, 01:09 AM

#36 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

maybe its worth using but with a session or two a week without

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

DaNutsInYoEye

12-16-2007, 01:38 AM

#37 (permalink)

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Join Date: Apr 2004

Location: St. Louis

Posts: 1,921

FUCK HUDs

TheXianti: (Triptanes) why are you not a thinking person?

Robb

12-16-2007, 02:27 AM

#38 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

So many 100nl players who cannot turn off their HUDs and explain their decisions without stats.

Poker is a game of incomplete information, where more info trumps less. If my opponents are using HUD's, I'm giving up an edge. I've got no idea how many microstakes players are using them, but I have come across a few. LoL. One guy read out his PT stats on me (only had 75 HH's, and his read was way off). As you move up stakes, giving up an informational edge seems silly.

I'm not saying the game can't be beaten without a HUD. It can, and I can do it (at NL10). I just think I win a lot more with the HUD because I can play more tables with a better win rate in BB/100 than I can HUD-less.

Chopper

12-16-2007, 03:40 AM

#39 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: St. Louis, MO

Posts: 4,255

chopper
10NL,25NL,50NL,.25/.50FL,.50/1FL
6max, 3-4.......FR, 4-6
yes, but do turn it off on occasion for above mentioned reasons.

allright, besides i feel that you can become too dependent on a HUD. i use if for the basics (loose or tight, aggressive/passive) and thats about it. i track all kinds of stuff on myself, though.

i dont see what the hell a "folds to river raise" stat means to me when i have 1000 hands on a guy, but only been to the river with him about 50 times. way too small of a sample, imo.

LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!

Jager

12-16-2007, 05:02 AM

#40 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2006

Posts: 754

HUD stats I use and WHY:
Combined line 1: Basics
Hands/VPIP/PFR/TAF

Combined line 2: Fold to /cbet stuff
Folds to Cbet/folds to trun bet/ folds to river bet/raise cbet
These are all color coordinated.

Combined line 3:Steal Stats
Call PFR/ATT to steal/ Fold BB to steal/ Bets river
These are also color coodinated

I rarely use Line 1, it is just the basics. Fold to cbet and calls PFR I use to determine if I raise a limper with junk, especailly out of the blinds. If they limp alot then call then fold == $$$. I use fold to turn for double barrels, and along with bets river to determine if I should check behind or fire again. There are alot of players who fold when you bet turn, but bluff the hell out of the river. Using PFR and att to steal I can get a good idea of a players UTG raise %. I am sure there is more, but I get a good idea of what they are doing postflop, and how they play their hands without watching them ultra close. I also take notes when they raise or 3bet a hand not in their normal % range(ie a 15/10 raises 54s UTG). You don't always get a good read on the regs without detailed notes, but this helps me ID the fish quickly and gives me lines on who folds and who I can Vbet the fuck out of.

Note: My popup on PAHUD doesn't work so these are the only stats I have or use.

"It is impossible for you to learn what you think you already know."

bode

12-16-2007, 05:30 AM

#41 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

insert great content here

fyp

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

wufwugy

12-16-2007, 07:17 AM

#42 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2006

Posts: 1,660

HUD hate is very misguided. It's an invaluable tool for the large majority of multitablers. There are a rare few who do well without it, but c'mon, there are a rare few of a lot of things. Put in its most simple form, HUD makes it much easier to identify player styles, tendencies, and skill levels. Nobody who uses HUD correctly makes decisions based off the HUD exclusively.

I can list off hand after hand after hand after hand of thin thin value that I got due to HUD aid. HUDs tell you a lot about how to play the opponents. Nobody, not even the best non-HUD users can play a lot of tables vs relatively unknowns and have as good of reads as a skilled HUD user.

Fighting against HUD is a losing battle. Not everbody should use it, I guess maybe, but most should. The argument that it stunts skill growth is also bollocks.

But please, don't you HUD. It'll make my job easier since you'll likely be less aided vs me. And I used to be anti-HUD, but that was before I started using it and my winrate shot up. Actually learning how to use the stats is kinda hard and a significant factor that many don't realize.

Dislexsik

12-16-2007, 10:47 AM

#43 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: On the grind

Posts: 832

lol @ ppl who dont need a HUD, srsly if u multitable its a must have.dont care what stakes

Miffed22001

12-16-2007, 10:55 AM

#44 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

So many 100nl players who cannot turn off their HUDs and explain their decisions without stats.

We dont state that a HUD doesnt or does give you an edge, or that your giving it up, its about how a HUD stunts your development from a small stakes to midstakes and high stakes poker player.

If you dont understand what people are doing without an aide, how will you know when the aide doesnt help and everyone is the same, adapting to your play, as what happens in mid/high stakes games.

Sure, you can win a few extra bbs/100 at 10nl 100nl or w/e but it also stops you watching and learning and observing tables.

i always find it funny when people pots reads: 24/12, that tells you nothing other than your opponents approx range, it doesnt tell you about his tendancies, which non-HUD users can tell you about after 5mins at a tbale with every player.

the reality of HUDS is whether your a 12 tabling moron who will grind out a winrate but never really kill games, or if you are a 4-6 tabler who has a more substantial winrate and is a better player.

wufwugy

12-16-2007, 04:28 PM

#45 (permalink)

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Posts: 1,660

24/12 says a lot, and the more skilled somebody is at the game and at understanding HUD stats the more it says.

Using HUD is not what stunts growth. Midstakes are hard, and require a shitton of skill. They're substantially harder than the highest stakes of three years ago. I honestly do not know how to respond to the statement that HUD stunts development. That's just such a weird thing to say. Does PT stunt growth?

Robb

12-16-2007, 05:47 PM

#46 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Aug 2007

Posts: 3,072

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

...its about how a HUD stunts your development from a small stakes to midstakes and high stakes poker player.

If you dont understand what people are doing without an aide, how will you know when the aide doesnt help and everyone is the same, adapting to your play, as what happens in mid/high stakes games.

the reality of HUDS is whether your a 12 tabling moron who will grind out a winrate but never really kill games, or if you are a 4-6 tabler who has a more substantial winrate and is a better player.

Miffed knows about a zillion times more than I do about mid stakes and high stakes. I know this - I was a losing player that was about ready to quit because I'd pissed $300 down the poker chute. I got a HUD and learned some much basically overnight that I was a winning player. The HUD has seriously helped my learning curve be steeper - no hindrances. Now that the game is becoming more readable, maybe I should go HUD-less a while. I don't know. But I know now that I have a hobby that pays for itself, and I've won back ALL the money I've lost plus the money invested in PT and HUD.

Checked PT and here are my NL10 winrates (about 20k hands per month, so small sample, but for what it's worth):

Oct: 6.7 BB/100
Nov: 9.3 BB/100
Dec: 10.7 BB/100

I've also gone from 4 tables in October to 8 or 9 tables currently, which is why the months all have roughly 20k in them. That's my learning curve, and I'm getting better each week. I feel like I've just barely learned the game enough to rack up baby wins, take baby steps. But I'm confident at this level I can win, can build br, can grind. Maybe some day, when I'm a midstakes player that's plateaued, I'll think back to these back-and-forths with Miffed and say to myself: "You know, losing the HUD for 100k hands might really help me learn something here." But you know what? Without the HUD I was done with poker, and was never getting even to NL50. With the HUD I might just make it up there to NL200 and have a chance to learn more advanced skills.

For some us, poker is a hobby, and we're just happy that it pays for itself plus a little. If the HUD gets me there, and no better, I'm okay with that. It's a damn site better than where I was.

spoonitnow

12-30-2007, 06:14 PM

#47 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Sep 2005

Location: IRC Chat Room

Posts: 5,406

100nl, 14-16 tables, I use a HUD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripptyde

I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.

Rule # 1: don't ask questions

Rule # 2: don't ask questions

I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.

Jack Sawyer

12-30-2007, 11:33 PM

#48 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Old School

Posts: 2,535

Jack Sawyer will become famous soon enough

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye

FUCK HUDs

I SECOND THIS MOTION

lol, a fitting 1200th post

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

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Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI

Jack Sawyer

12-30-2007, 11:36 PM

#49 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2007

Location: Old School

Posts: 2,535

Name: Jack
Game: 25 NLH/PLH/PLO, 50 NLH/PLH/PLO, mostly but not exclusively 6-max
Tables: 2.5 avg, 4 max
HUDs: never have, never will

My dream... is to fly... over the rainbow... so high...

Quote:

VHS is like a book and a book is like a stack of kindles.

Hey, I'm in a movie!
http://youtu.be/lGdnIrRKDTI

Halv

12-31-2007, 12:59 AM

#50 (permalink)

pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind

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Location: No hindsight for the blind.

Posts: 1,842

Name: HalvSame
Game: 400NL 6m
Tables: 4-14
HUD: yeah, Im pretty much a bot.

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