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How to spot trips? I didn't ($2NL)

  
 
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Gafferland
Old 10-22-2009, 07:57 AM     Post subject: How to spot trips? I didn't ($2NL) #1 (permalink)  
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I can't recall the post, but one of the most useful pieces of info I've found on this site was in regards to playing pps against someone you can squarely put on AA in raised pots. In regards to implied odds, you take a look at his stack and, if he has at least 15 times the amount that it would take for you to call his pf raise, you can call hoping to hit a set ans stack him.

Well, anyhow, that happened to me tonight, but I don't think to guy was thinking about implied odd when calling me pre-flop, plus he couldn't've put me on anything in particular because my raise was nothing out of the ordinary. Also, he called my pf raise lightning quick after limping UTG, so I was thinking bigger pair. After he raise me on the flop I was definitely thinking big pair. I had only played a few hands with this guy, like literally 2, so no copilot data to work with. What, if anything, should I have done differently here? Probably not come over the top for all my chips on the flop, right? Will post another disastrous hand later.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Villain (UTG) ($2.38)
MP ($2.85)
Button ($2.62)
SB ($1.95)
Hero (BB) ($8.41)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
Villain (poster) checks, MP calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, Hero bets $0.14, Villain (poster) calls $0.12, MP calls $0.12, 1 fold, SB calls $0.12

Flop: ($0.58) 4, K, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.42, Villain raises to $0.84, 2 folds, Hero raises to $8.27 (All-In), Villain calls $1.40 (All-In)

Turn: ($5.06) Q (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($5.06) 5 (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $5.06 | Rake: $0.25

Results:
Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Villain had 4, 4 (three of a kind, fours).
Outcome: Villain won $4.81
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is whether they admit it. I myself deny it." — H. L. Mencken
 
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scfc_andy15
Old 10-22-2009, 08:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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the min-raise says I have a hand, but at these stakes could well be AK,KQ even KJ. I personally wouldn't of folded either here, but with stack sizes I don't see how you could just call the flop as the money would go in on the turn anyway. I don't think it was badly played just unlucky had a good hand. Dont take my word for it though
"Whether he likes it or not, a man's character is stripped bare at the poker table; if the other players read him better than he does, he has only himself to blame. Unless he is both able and prepared to see himself as others do, flaws and all, he will be a loser in cards, as in life."
 
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Belt
Old 10-22-2009, 10:41 AM #3 (permalink)  
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From my experience, a min raise indicates 2pr+ most of the times. It may be TPTK from time to time and very rarely a bluff but i wouldn't count on it.

Of course if we can put AK in his range it justifies your move but KQ, KJ is too optimistic I guess.
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bjsaust
Old 10-22-2009, 11:08 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Ask yourself what else he could have that makes sense (not just this hand, but to answer the question in the title).
Just playing to improve.
 
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Stacks
Old 10-22-2009, 04:52 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I HATE RESULTS!!!!
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Outlaw
Old 10-22-2009, 04:54 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Villain's will sometimes have the top of their stacking range.. just make sure that there are other possible hands in their stacking range before you decide to stack off with one pair.
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Gafferland
Old 10-22-2009, 07:47 PM #7 (permalink)  
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When I came over the top, a giant AK was ricocheting around my dome. Good poit about the stack sizes, Andy. That makes me feel a bit better.

Stacks: Sorry, I sort of felt like the results were necessary here. Should I have not posted them so you guys could guess whether he had KK, 44, or 33? Serious question, not being snarky.
"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is whether they admit it. I myself deny it." — H. L. Mencken
 
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sarbox68
Old 10-23-2009, 05:07 AM #8 (permalink)  
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He has $1.40 left behind... that's an SPR of like 1 after he raises. On top of that, he could easily be doing this w/ KQ/KJ etc to push you off before an A hits (and there's 12 combos of each of those) or AK (3 combos) vs. 6 combos for a set of 4s or 3s. It's not even close.
 
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Stacks
Old 10-23-2009, 06:09 AM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gafferland

Stacks: Sorry, I sort of felt like the results were necessary here. Should I have not posted them so you guys could guess whether he had KK, 44, or 33? Serious question, not being snarky.
You shouldn't have:

(1) Alluded to the outcome of the hand
(2) Posted results
(3) Stacked off if you thought his range for raising the flop was solely KK/44/33.

By alluding to the results, you obviously deteriorate meaningful discussion of the hand because we already know what he had. And if we had the whole story (the results) while playing the hand, then we could make the perfect decision. But sense we didn't, we have to base the decision off the information we are given at the time of the decision. That is with results, left out.

Next time, if you want best discussion on a confusing hand, leave out any clues as to the results, and stop the hand at the decision you are contemplating. Such as here, you would stop it after being raised, as obviously up to that point you know how to play the hand.
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argash
Old 10-24-2009, 02:03 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Here is a similiar situation here. Villain was 45/20 over 60 hands

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($2.20)
Villain (MP2) ($3.75)
CO ($0.90)
Button ($1.21)
Hero (SB) ($4.26)
BB ($1.19)
UTG ($0.58)
UTG+1 ($2.68)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, K
3 folds, Villain calls $0.02, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, Villain calls $0.08, CO calls $0.08

Flop: ($0.32) 4, A, 2 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.20, Villain raises to $0.92, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2, Villain raises to $3.65 (All-In), Hero calls $1.65

Turn: ($7.62) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($7.62) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $7.62 | Rake: $0.50
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sarbox68
Old 10-24-2009, 04:11 AM #11 (permalink)  
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@argash: But if 45/20 over a piss ant sample is all you've got, you really don't know sh!t. This guy could just as easily be doing this w/ AQ/AJ for all you know. Basically when you stack off deep w/ only TPTK vs. an unknown, anything can happen. It's a high variance move - esp at $2 or $5NL where there's a sizable population of droolers. If you don't want the variance, don't play big pot w/ a 1 pair hand. If you don't care, then stack that sh!t off and take what comes. But w/ no reads, I don't see how you're interpreting anything from PF and a one-street stack off.
 
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Stacks
Old 10-24-2009, 04:36 AM #12 (permalink)  
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 I'm not saying it applies to these situations, but I bet 90% of microstakes players need to bet/fold more often. Generally players don't raise quite as wide a range as you would like to think.
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