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How to play tournament blinds?

  
 
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JanusVV
Old 06-01-2007, 09:05 AM     Post subject: How to play tournament blinds? #1 (permalink)  

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JanusVV
Hello there!

I have found a big leak in my tournament game so far.
After looking at Pokertracker i noticed that i can see how much T$ i earned from each position. Interesting to note is that i lose T$ on 4 positions being : BB, SB, Button+2, Button+4.
BB : 16,230
SB : 12,790
B+2: 1,990
B+4: 1,695

The difference between total T$ won and lost is only 1,220. So it seems i lose all my hard earned T$ in the blinds.

How should one play blinds at different levels? Currently i dont bother at all with blinds untill i drop below the 20 BB mark. After that i inspect the person that is raising to see how often he/she raises in attempt to steal the blinds. If it is 3 or more i reraise three times his/her raise, no matter what my cards. However if somebody raises in early position and somebody calls i will just fold and wait for next time.

I also think i am a bargain hunter and that gets me into trouble. I play speculative hands because i am getting a cheaper price to see the flop, and then run into big hands later on.

What should i do to play better blinds poker? Play more passive ? Tighten up? Keep an better eye out on positions etc?

Any comments and replies will be grately apreciated.
Janus
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gingerwizard
Old 06-01-2007, 10:24 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 Well you're supposed to lose money in the blinds and in tourns you lose a lot because they are always on the increase. However limiting those losses is one of the things that can make great players. Defending your BB by shoving over limpers, and other such things can definately help if you find the right situation. You should also be stealing a lot from the SB when folded around and the blinds are high.

I reckon though that a lot of the losses can come HU or when racing in the blinds. When it comes to positional stats what really counts is that you are putting more money in with better position. Check that first. To analyze blind play look at steal/defend stats
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JanusVV
Old 06-01-2007, 11:32 AM #3 (permalink)  

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JanusVV
Thanks for the reply gingerwizard!

I agree i should be losing money on the blinds, but from my stats it seems i lose everything i gain on the blinds. Does that mean i basicly get blinded off too much ? As in not loose enough in later stages?

I will definitely take a look at steal/defend stats tho! Thanks for the tip.
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gingerwizard
Old 06-01-2007, 12:44 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Either it means you get blinded off too much, or you are not playing well enough in position. Not sure. Look at your steal/defend stats and see what you think
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JanusVV
Old 06-01-2007, 07:53 PM #5 (permalink)  

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JanusVV
I must admit, based on my stats im totally confused now!

Can you give me any advice please?

I know my sample size is small, yet the relative difference in +T$ and -T$ of all positions is so big that i think the sample size is not a big issue.


Blind stats


Position stats
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Chopper
Old 06-01-2007, 11:26 PM #6 (permalink)  
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sorry, i dont put a lot of stock in analyzing specifics in PT. not that it cant help, but i dont think anyone has nearly a big enough sample size to know much other than whether or not they can play a level profitably.

that said, my guess is your position play is not "loose enough" in the later stages of a tourney. meaning you are not stealing enough when the blinds matter.

in the earlier stages, blinds dont mean much...and their totals wont do too much to your numbers, either. but late, when the blinds are 10 X what they are in the early stages...they matter BIG TIME!

my guess is that if you play more aggressively with position, people will be less apt to try stealing YOUR blinds. after all, you are the guy that, "man, he raises all the time...i better not try and steal his blind with this crap, he may RR me."

if you can put that thought in their heads, i think you will notice it in your numbers in the future.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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Unibomber14
Old 06-02-2007, 01:54 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Blinds are relative. This is true for cash games, but especially so in a tournament. This means that initial action, and essentially all play is for the blinds. You are playing to take down the blinds. Therefor, you can determine how to play them by thinking as you do from any other position. When you are deciding whether or not to play the blinds, think about pot size, implied odds, player image, and pot odds (more relevent in multiway pots preflop). If the blinds are small, the pot is small. There is no reason to get yourself in trouble with a mediocre hand in a small pot. However, once the blinds get large in the later stages, playing lower PP's and mid-range suited connectors (especially heads up) can be very beneficial to squelch blind stealing a little. Remember though, that if your hand range has widened, your opponent's probably has too. So, make sure you pay attention to his/her play. If you get yourself into trouble, you will be out of position, and hurting if you find yourself at a tough decision. Always remember to adjust and adapt.

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Chopper
Old 06-03-2007, 01:22 AM #8 (permalink)  
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i am not a tourney specialist, so, take this as the .02 its worth. i disagree that "all play is essentially for the blinds." thats either too deep a thought, or too simplistic, i cant make up my mind which it is.

when in a early stage of a tourney, you absolutely are NOT playing for the blinds. you almost always are trying to think of the best way to get additional money in the pot. if you have a marginal hand like AXs, you absolutely need more than the blinds to fight for.

and if you have AA, you are not satisfied with only taking down the blinds...you want people to make a foolish call of your raise, and hit a 2nd best hand.

sure, later on blinds mean more.

most of what you said i agree with, but not that one.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

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givememyleg
Old 06-03-2007, 04:50 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 I get killed in the bb, but my sb is positive over a decent sample. Push atc!

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JanusVV
Old 06-04-2007, 06:21 AM #10 (permalink)  

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Thanks alot for the feedback! Im thinking all this over at the moment, but im still unsure about what i need to change in my game.

Can i think on it some more then post some more questions on the subject ?
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Liam^
Old 06-04-2007, 06:51 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Your sample size is too small, yeah. I think you probably see too many Showdowns, and when you do see them you lose too many. Perhaps you're too afraid of being bluffed and end up calling when you're actually way behind?

Personally I don't get much action at the start of a tourney, too many fish not enough for them to lose or for you to win. I stick to the premium hands. Then about halfway through you get a feel for the table normally, you know who is raising in every hand, and who is super tight. In the blinds you'll often get people trying to bully you, burn em once or twice and your bets and raises will start to scare them off a lot more.
 
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JanusVV
Old 06-04-2007, 07:41 AM #12 (permalink)  

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JanusVV
One thing i have noticed is how quick people go exit in tournaments. In a $6 tournament the other day, with only 3 sattelites gone, 40% of the field was eliminated. In that time i hadnt played a single hand. (Super tight, 31 hands - 0 played) And it cost me 20+10+40+20+60+30=180/3000 = 6% of my stack.

So considdering this is it wise to play this tight ? I know the obvious answer is yes, but since 40% of the field is out, this means that the average stack is 140% versus my 94% stack, meaning im almost 50% behind the rest of the pack.

This means if i dont grab chips soon i will soon be in serious need of a double up not to end up as the tournament short stack.

So what happens is that i wait for my premium hands, but get called by big stacks and then outdrawn/outflopped. Off course the odd time i manage to double up, but i feel that playing tight in these kamikazi tournaments results in a kind of bingo effect where you need to push and hope to double up instead of outplaying people.

Am i wrong in seeing it this way? And if so can someone please help me work out on a working strategy for these tournaments?

The reason i am saying this is because i always try to play TAG, but im doubting if that is the way to go here.
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Pants_101
Old 06-04-2007, 11:18 AM #13 (permalink)  
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I think TAG is a good basic strategy, stops you donking off too many chips early on which limits how much you can double up by later when you get a hand. Still very early I would be limping into cheap multiway pots with hands that do well in these conditions - the larger suited connectors and pocket pairs for example. There are idiots early on who will just give their chips away so you should give yourself an opportunity to win them before someone else does.
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Liam^
Old 06-04-2007, 05:49 PM #14 (permalink)  
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TAG early, can help to build a good table image too, so when the blinds start to mean something, your steals will be more successful. I definately loosen up a lot as the tourney goes on though as long as I'm not short stacked. Often, an ace and high kicker is enough to get a good raise in.
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JanusVV
Old 06-11-2007, 06:03 AM #15 (permalink)  

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JanusVV
Thanks alot for the helpfull posts

After applying this to my game i noticed a significant improvement. My game from the blinds is getting better and so is my tournament game overall. I played two tournaments and finished itm on both of them. (15/698 and 8/705)

Just want to say thanks! Now i just need to work on not donking away chips when im deep itm.
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