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Telepath
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12-18-2005, 05:38 PM
Post subject: How to play over your bankroll.
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#1 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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Now I am aware of the fact that playing over your bankroll isn't a good idea. But, that doesn't stop some people from doing it anyway. They might have a 5K roll and feel like taking a gamble at a $1000NL table to see if they can "make a run for it". Or (even worse) they might decide to gamble with their entire $100 roll on one buyin at a $100NL. I don't condone that sort of decision but it's a reality.
Now, if you are to do something as admittedly stupid as this, how should you play? Should your play deviate from the "usual" play at your lunch table, or should it stay the same?
Obviously I have some ideas but I want to hear your opinions.
Discuss.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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I would imagine you would have to play tournament strategy and Give up alot of small edges if there is a significant chance you will go bust (or even pretty big edges)
i.e. no allins when it is 60/40 in your favour.
It would basically suck as people would soon pick up on it and be able to start pushing you off hands even if you both knew you had a slightly better hand.
i.e. playing a hand with all the cards face up. You hold QQ op. holds AK. You raise to 5BB or what ever. Op. pushes allin. You should probably fold and wait for a hand where you hold a monster and the cards are face down even though you are a slight favorite.
This is because if you lose you will have 0 chips left to try the same coinflip again enough times for luck to even out.
Edit: what im saying is you would have to camp for monsters and hope they hold up
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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Telepath
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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I am thinking a little along the lines of playing a very passive game preflop, concentrate on drawing hands and pursue hits aggressively.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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MannerBoy
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12-18-2005, 06:18 PM
Post subject: Re: How to play over your bankroll.
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#4 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 110
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Telepath
Now, if you are to do something as admittedly stupid as this
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Then u deserve to bust.
Do u see why ?
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Telepath
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12-18-2005, 06:24 PM
Post subject: Re: How to play over your bankroll.
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#5 (permalink)
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by MannerBoy
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Telepath
Now, if you are to do something as admittedly stupid as this
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Then u deserve to bust.
Do u see why ? |
I see why. I just thought it made for an interesting topic.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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I tried one orbit of 1000NL a few days ago with just a 3K BR then. It was pretty exciting to have 1K at stake.. EV=~0, variance huge.
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THaC
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carey, Ohio
Posts: 389
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I had a roll of about $50, and decided to try a $20+3 6 max sng.. That was on Thursday, and today I'm up to $400. I guess I was one of the lucky ones 
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edudlive
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Full House
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: 100NL 6max
Posts: 623
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by THaC
I had a roll of about $50, and decided to try a $20+3 6 max sng.. That was on Thursday, and today I'm up to $400. I guess I was one of the lucky ones |
You'll last about 3 more days doing that
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finky
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Flush
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: London
Posts: 270
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Dwarfman Challange!!
Nobel randomly put $20 into my empty account today, its up to $300 not sure if I should cash or continue...
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THaC
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carey, Ohio
Posts: 389
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by edudlive
Quote:
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Originally Posted by THaC
I had a roll of about $50, and decided to try a $20+3 6 max sng.. That was on Thursday, and today I'm up to $400. I guess I was one of the lucky ones |
You'll last about 3 more days doing that |
After another 2 hours of playing, I'm at $550.
I'll stop playing in 2 days, just for you.
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Telepath
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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A little word of caution THac. Those rushes do come to an end.
But you have to live it for yourself to believe us.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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I would love to sit at 1,000 NL
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Telepath
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 105
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Oh I did, when I was a total newbie. Lucky for me I didn't get totally cleaned out.
I've promised myself not to repeat that experience again until I have a roll of at least 10K, and then I'll treat it as a possibly expensive luxury.
T.
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No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.
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journey075
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Full House
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 725
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uhh, dont play drawing hands. make other people pay to draw.
ive sat at 500nl with a 4k br and had a nice 2k upswing. if youre willing to drop down when you lose i dont really see a problem.
if i lost my first buyin i wouldve gone back down to 1 or 200nl. it was basically an intelligent gamble that paid off.
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johnny_fish
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: donkaments weeeeeeeeeeee
Posts: 2,186
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My PTBB/100 at 1000NL is 293 
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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I can't beleive I haven't seen this said yet.
If you play outside of your BR and play a different style that you don't usually play, you're probably going to bust. Why play differently then what you always play and you've trained yourself to be good at? Scared of losing that buy in? Thats pussy poker.
I've played outside of my BR like a fucking retard, I admit it. I play exactly the same style I've always played. I've also have made the mistake though of playing different and being a pussy because of it. That has never been beneficial for me. I always play my game regardless of how much I put on the line. Sometimes I would go on a rush and make ton moving me from the previous level up to the next, sometimes I'd make a little, sometimes I'd bust, sometimes I'd break even. Just like normal.
Just play your game.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Only risk what you are willing to lose.
As for the topic question, I agree with the monsters idea (first reply). I don't mind risking 10% of my roll on a 60% chance. But not 33% of my roll.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
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bumble
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12-21-2005, 02:05 AM
Post subject: I have had success......
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#18 (permalink)
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Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 8
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I have had success playing over my bankroll but I think it is because I play better poker..... My percentage of seeing the flop drops to about 20% compared to 30% at lower levels............clearly I am abandoning dubious draws and sticking to more powerful cards that can withstand the pressure of reraises etc. Combined with a good percentage of 1/2 pot or more continuation bets, I am able to move out the drawing hands and gain some extra pots. Now all that being said, I am apparently enough of a pussy to stay at my "more comfortable" level, rather than play at the level that I know (and Pokertracker comfirms) that I make more BB/Hr at. In short, apparently fear makes me play better cards......... I am playing 25NL mostly but doing better at 50NL and getting the best numbers (but smaller sample) at 100NL at Party Poker.............go figure 
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joshuadzl
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12-21-2005, 10:51 AM
Post subject: Re: I have had success......
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#19 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bumble
I have had success playing over my bankroll but I think it is because I play better poker..... My percentage of seeing the flop drops to about 20% compared to 30% at lower levels............clearly I am abandoning dubious draws and sticking to more powerful cards that can withstand the pressure of reraises etc. Combined with a good percentage of 1/2 pot or more continuation bets, I am able to move out the drawing hands and gain some extra pots. Now all that being said, I am apparently enough of a pussy to stay at my "more comfortable" level, rather than play at the level that I know (and Pokertracker comfirms) that I make more BB/Hr at. In short, apparently fear makes me play better cards......... I am playing 25NL mostly but doing better at 50NL and getting the best numbers (but smaller sample) at 100NL at Party Poker.............go figure |
What is your sample size at the higher limit in comparison to the lower? Also, if you know how to play better poker, why would you choose not to? That isn't being a pussy, that is being retarded.
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Pelion
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dzl
sometimes I'd bust
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If y0uve busted more than your bankroll how do you continue to play?
I suspect you arent playing outside your bankroll (i.e. money you have available to play poker) but are just playing outside of the bankroll you have in websites.
If you have 1 bankroll and when you bust thats it... no more poker because you cant afford it or at least cant afford it for a while then you have to play much more conservativly.
A slightly extreme example:
If you for some reason had to mortgage your house and use the money to play poker then you would be silly to accept an allin even if the cards were faceup and you knew you had a 55% chance to win the hand.
Clearly the best answer to this is to not play outside of your bankroll and to not play with money that you really need. Within the confines of the question though i think you have to change your playing style because "if you're broke, you're done".
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gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
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Originally Posted by dzl
sometimes I'd bust
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If y0uve busted more than your bankroll how do you continue to play?
I suspect you arent playing outside your bankroll (i.e. money you have available to play poker) but are just playing outside of the bankroll you have in websites.
If you have 1 bankroll and when you bust thats it... no more poker because you cant afford it or at least cant afford it for a while then you have to play much more conservativly.
A slightly extreme example:
If you for some reason had to mortgage your house and use the money to play poker then you would be silly to accept an allin even if the cards were faceup and you knew you had a 55% chance to win the hand.
Clearly the best answer to this is to not play outside of your bankroll and to not play with money that you really need. Within the confines of the question though i think you have to change your playing style because "if you're broke, you're done". |
Busting a buyin at a higher game my BR cannot pad appropriately for variance. I've never done say a "big run for it" alla Rounders.
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storm75m
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Flush
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: 6MAX-NL - Houston
Posts: 401
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I think it's only natural to alter your game when you're playing way above your roll, and I don't think you can really help it. If you're used to playing with a 25 buy-in cushion and take a big shot where you only have 5 buy-ins at those stakes, then all kinds of things inside of your mind will change. You will be paying more attention to everything in the game, and your starting hands will probably be more selective. It just goes along with the rush... the opportunity and thrill to score big, or the fear of going bust. You WILL play a little differently, whether you think you are or not. It's grinding vs. gambling. When you're grinding it's almost like an everyday natural thing, and most of the time you can put yourself on "auto-pilot". But when the gamble side comes out, your heart rate increases, and more adrenaline is pumping.
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Lack of Discipline and Over-Confidence... The root of all poker evil.
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joshuadzl
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Flush
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Seattle, Wa
Posts: 287
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by storm75m
I think it's only natural to alter your game when you're playing way above your roll, and I don't think you can really help it. If you're used to playing with a 25 buy-in cushion and take a big shot where you only have 5 buy-ins at those stakes, then all kinds of things inside of your mind will change. You will be paying more attention to everything in the game, and your starting hands will probably be more selective. It just goes along with the rush... the opportunity and thrill to score big, or the fear of going bust. You WILL play a little differently, whether you think you are or not. It's grinding vs. gambling. When you're grinding it's almost like an everyday natural thing, and most of the time you can put yourself on "auto-pilot". But when the gamble side comes out, your heart rate increases, and more adrenaline is pumping.
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You have a great point and its not something I didn't totally overlook though I did not give it enough consideration. I agree with everything you said, though I still try to play my same game. Maybe I won't make early bluffs as much, but I will play my hands the same way I would at prior levels (made hands that is). The other thing for me though that I think its unfair to not point out is that when I play above my BR, I'm playing at B&M. I can't play at my level at B&M because the only thing around here I have to play is 3/5NL. So for me, in live, its 3/5 or nothing. My awareness and thrill always goes up at a live table vs the internet, so that totally backs up your points.
The reason I won't bluff as much is simply because at my local B&M, the max buy in is only 40 big blinds. Its rough. I can't afford to take risks early as much as I would when I have a 100BB structure like normally we see online. However, when I'm sitting around 100BB, or even 60-80, I go back into my normal play. I'm more aware and attentive, though my starting hands don't really tighten up much once I'm back in a comfortable stack count. I'm just more comfortable with playing aggressive on lesser hands occasion when I have around 80BB rather than 40BB. My courage sucks, I know, its a weakness I'm still working on.
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