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Tom42
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08-04-2006, 09:29 AM
Post subject: How to play drawing hands on low stakes?
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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So I'm writing this beginners guide for a friend of mine who will be playing the lowest stakes (2NL 25NL). Currently I'm trying to figure out the drawing hands section.
I play 50 NL and I think It's not a good idea to advise him to play his draws the same way as I play them, aggressive, because of all the loose passive players that populate these lowest stakes. I also realized I really don't have a plan myself, I play them intuitive.
So I have a few questions :
You do need folding equity to bet your draws, right? How much do you need with say 12 outs (Axs) and you bet the pot? I have trouble accounting for the deception, the bigger implied odds and the free card on the turn if you bet your draws.
Do you bet more often in position or do you take the free card on the flop? Do you raise a lot?
What do you generally do on a missed turn if you've bet OOP on the flop?
Do you always take the free card on the turn in position? I'm asking this because betting the river with a busted draw looks a lot like a busted draw if you checked behind on the turn. Which mean you will lose the hand a majority of the time.
If you decide to just call a bet, what kind of odds are you looking for on the flop? On the turn? I know the pot odds part, but implied are more important I think. How much do you expect to win generally on later streets with a flush? Straight? Also do you factor in stealing the pot with a busted draw when opp shows weakness?
I hope to spark some good discussion. Thanks in advance for the helpful replies.
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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I forgot to mention, the guide is for 6-max tables only, if that makes a difference in playing drawing hands.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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At the lowest stakes, you should advise him to see as cheaply as possible if his draw hits.. and then overplay the pot. Aggressively playing draws is largely a waste if you're getting called with middle pair and the like.
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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Greedo017
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: wearing the honors of honor and whatnot
Posts: 1,461
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in heads up pots, or with few people in it, i would play draws more aggressively, especially if you don't think the person is a calling station. This would entail betting the flop and turn, but i wouldn't pot them, more like 2/3 pot. Even against this type of player I would check behind on the turn whenever I could. If i bet the flop oop, i'm probably betting most safe turns, but a fair amount i'll also check/call and hope they give a good price to call. rarely if ever river bluff.
in pots with 3+ people seeing it, or with calling stations, I would be as passive as possible until i made my hand then go nuclear.
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i betcha that i got something you ain't got, that's called courage, it don't come from no liquor bottle, it ain't scotch
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Halv
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pro crastinator
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: No hindsight for the blind.
Posts: 1,842
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I'd rethink the entire guide if I were you. I'll post my guide in its entirety:
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"HalvSame's beginners guide to online poker"
Go to the forum at www.flopturnriver.com and read all the stickies.
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What I'm getting at is that if you yourself are not comfortable in teaching him, then let him study up and learn it for himself.
As for advice, I'm with jackvance on this.
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by jackvance
At the lowest stakes, you should advise him to see as cheaply as possible if his draw hits.. and then overplay the pot. Aggressively playing draws is largely a waste if you're getting called with middle pair and the like.
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Yes, that's what I thought and I agree that's ok as general rule at these stakes. But even at these stakes you will find weak tight players or situations where betting your draws is EV+, as greedo pointed out :
Quote:
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in heads up pots, or with few people in it, i would play draws more aggressively, especially if you don't think the person is a calling station. This would entail betting the flop and turn, but i wouldn't pot them, more like 2/3 pot. Even against this type of player I would check behind on the turn whenever I could. If i bet the flop oop, i'm probably betting most safe turns, but a fair amount i'll also check/call and hope they give a good price to call. rarely if ever river bluff.
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Thanks for ur imput.
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Tom42
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 110
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HalvSame
I'd rethink the entire guide if I were you. I'll post my guide in its entirety:
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"HalvSame's beginners guide to online poker"
Go to the forum at www.flopturnriver.com and read all the stickies.
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What I'm getting at is that if you yourself are not comfortable in teaching him, then let him study up and learn it for himself. |
Your concern is noted. My guide is for a good part based on flopturnriver material and I have gone through the lower limits with success, so I think my experience can benefit him.
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Dunk
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Straight
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Metrowest Massachusetts
Posts: 131
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One beginner thing that seems to work for me at low-stakes tables is from these boards: pricing your turn when you have players behind you.
So you get a flop that gives you a 4-flush or a OESD. If you make a minbet or 2xBB bet, a lot of the tables will just call the minbet, easily giving you +EV odds. Even when people decide to get "aggressive" they often just hit the "Raise" button again, you will still give you your odds. A lot of the people on beginner tables don't think odds, and see a bet of 2xBB as a serious move rather than thinking of a pot-size bet.
So this may be conservative when you could be pushing closer up to odds, and you still have to watch out for the better flush or the higher straight, but it's a starting point.
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Note: new guy and very open to constructive criticism, so go ahead and weigh in! I'm here to learn.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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the min bet on a drawing board screams out that you are on a draw. it may work some of the time at the 10nl table, but mostly it wont. and at higher limits its just an invitation for someone to raise the hell out of you. you are much less likely to be raised in this situation (by air) if you make a 1/2 pot bet, which still gives you correct odds and allows you to take the lead in the hand. that way if you are raised you have a much better idea of what your opp has as well.
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