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|~|ypermegachi
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10-25-2004, 11:50 PM
Post subject: how much should the good limit player make?
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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i looked at my stats, and it's pitiful that most of my winnings comes from bonus money! right now i'm only making about 2BB an hour. i play 0.5/1 tables, so that's a whopping 2 bucks an hour!
i read through SSH once already, but i'll need to reread it many times over before it gets engraved into my playing.
anywho, vote away people!
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BoondockSaint
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,844
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I said 10x just because I dont play limit and know if you make that youre doing pretty good I would say. Not much of a reason lol. I just got small stakes holdem ordered so hopefully it is a really good book. I'm going to start dabbling in limit possibly and it was free with a sign up on a site.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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The ranges on this post are absurd. Both in terms of the numbers and by using hours instead of number of hands.
2BB/hour for 1 table is soundly beating the game, probably even destroying it. Online full table is ~75 or less hands per hour?
My 2/4 win rate is at between 2-3BB/100. But these things are hard to nail down as you need such a large sample size. Don't even pretend you have a realistic win rate if you haven't had a streak of "f'n fish chase and catch everything." -100+ BB swings are a mathematical certainty. For NL, -10 buy-ins is not at all uncommon. My worst was around -12.
I played under 1k hands of 5/10 6 max for a while and cleared nearly 100BB. I know better than to claim my win rate is anywhere near 10BB/100. 1-2BB/100 is probably a better guess.
When you're running good it's really easy to over-rate your long term win-rate. It's really easy to forget about the week the deck bitch-slapped you and remember the big scores. Once you factor it all in, a good win-rate doesn't look that impressive for any game.
Consider that table selection is a big factor on win-rate. Different approaches do well at different tables. Good/tricky tight/passive players with enough spine to stand me down give me fits! Where-as I can run over weak/tight often enough, bring high card power + folds to bear against loose/passives and will value (re)-raise loose/aggressives to a rather rapid death (as I'm willing to concede a big pot when I catch an unlikely second best.)
Read ScGolfer's recent post, to get an idea of what bad luck can do. Ttanka had a post like that a while ago too. Speaking of him, I would be *very* interested to see the details behind the results he puts up. I'm curious what his sample size is and what his real win rate looks like. Monthy profit leaves out a lot of data.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Over my last 12k hands I'm @ 2.2/100 and I'm now on a downswing.
@ 10k hands I was around 2.9, but over the last 2k hands I've slid.
I believe 2 / 100 is easily sustainable for me.
I think 2-2.5 is about where I'll level out.
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lonnie
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 923
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My win rates from Poker Tracker, all are limit games:
.02/.04 - 145 games, 3.1 BB/100
.05/.10 - 1,890 games, 5.88 BB/100
.25/.50 - 1,700 games, 3.91 BB/100
.50/1.00 - 3,501 games, 4.68 BB/100
1/2 - 695 games, 1.01 BB/100
My usual game, .50/1.00 has been as high as 6 BB/100 and as low as 1.5 BB/100. It is currently a tad high as I have been catching good cards the last 500 hands or so.
Notice how low my win rate is at 1/2...I suspect the skill level increases exponentially from .50/1.00 to 1/2. They aren't running over me, but I'm not running over them either. All of those hands are from Interpoker.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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All of those samples are very small. About all you can really say is that you're probably beating games up to .5/1.
I started the month on a 3k run of nearly 6BB/100
Right now I'm at 6.5k hands for 3.4BB/100 after dropping nearly 75BB in a run of less than 200 hands and generally running cold for a few hundred.
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Eric
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: on my laptop
Posts: 1,782
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Ttanka had a post like that a while ago too. Speaking of him, I would be *very* interested to see the details behind the results he puts up. I'm curious what his sample size is and what his real win rate looks like. Monthy profit leaves out a lot of data.
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I can tell you this much about Tyson's data, he almost never plays limit.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eric
I can tell you this much about Tyson's data, he almost never plays limit.
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Which is exactly why it would be an interesting comparison. I have a very good idea what limit players are making...
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Eric
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Administrator
Administrator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: on my laptop
Posts: 1,782
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I agree that it will be interesting. It seems like his play comes in streaks, he can go awhile without playing due to vacations etc. However, when he does play he gets a lot of hands in each hour. I think he plays about 4 tables at once.
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mike4066
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,943
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Eric
I think he plays about 4 tables at once.
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G'luck to those who can 4 table.. I find that my winrate suffers if I play more than 2 tables. I try to rush though decisions and end up bitting myself in the ass.
My monitor can support 4 tables at once, but I find that playing 2 tables, and putting my Game Time window, under the games help me more.
Basicly it looks like this
PP = party poker table
GT = Poker trackers game time window.
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| PP PP |
| GT GT |
-----------
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|~|ypermegachi
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: emo-kid
Posts: 3,580
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the question you gotta ask yourself is...do you make more money multitabling given the negative effects it has on your win rate?
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Humphrind
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Kansas City
Posts: 1,887
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by hypermegachi
the question you gotta ask yourself is...do you make more money multitabling given the negative effects it has on your win rate?
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Just tighten up and only play group 1-2 hands. You wo't notice a win rate and after some practice, you will rarely have varience.
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I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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2 tables w/ reads isn't hard, nor should it reduce you to ~12% VP$IP.
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