Poker Forum

Over 1,246,000 Posts!

REGISTER
Subscribe to FTR web feed
Already Registered?      Username:    Password:   Remember      Forgot Password

Poker Forum

  > 

Beginners Circle

  > 

How much $ are you making.

  
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
ArcadianRock
Old 03-10-2009, 08:43 PM     Post subject: How much $ are you making. #1 (permalink)  
ArcadianRock's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
ArcadianRock
I'm currently in Psychology class so why not make a chart for poker!

I made a small chart for those wondering how long it will take them to get to the next level so I made a small chart (not really a chart) on how much they are making an hour.

These are assuming you play FR and average about 50 hands an hour. Also I'm assuming that 10bb-20bb is a good range for most players, maybe less maybe a bit more but I think 20bb/100 is pretty damn good poker playing so...

$2NL $2NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$.40 an hour $.80 an hour

$5NL $5NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$1 an hour $2 an hour

$10NL $10NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$2 an hour $4 an hour

$25NL $25NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$5 an hour $10 an hour

$50NL $50NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$10 an hour $20 an hour

$100NL $100NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$20 an hour $40 an hour

$200NL $200NL
10bb/100 20bb/100
4 tables 4 tables
$40 an hour $80 an hour
Reply With Quote

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2009, 08:53 PM #2 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 When you say 10bb-20bb you mean big blinds or big bets?

20ptbb (or 20BB - aka big bets) is absolutely killing the game at the microstakes. This type of win rate can only be sustained at a low level, and generally is the result of a heater.

5BB-10BB I believe is pretty standard for $2nl-$10nl.
However, as you increase limits, you should expect a decrease in win rate. No one is beating $200nl for 20ptbb/100 over the long run, there aren't enough shitty players to make this doable. I believe I read somewhere that 3BB/100 at 100nl and above is solid.

So for your chart you should have the win rates decreasing with each limit.

Most grinders multi-table too, so $/hour can change significantly with the addition or subtraction of tables played.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
ArcadianRock
Old 03-10-2009, 09:02 PM #3 (permalink)  
ArcadianRock's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
ArcadianRock
I mean bb or big blinds here.

Yeah, that's just a gage with 20bb being the most optimistic but no way it's going to happen which just goes to show how hard it is to make a living on $1/$2 as you need to multi table so much just to make a decent living.
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 09:03 PM #4 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
 1ptbb or 1BB = 2 big blinds? What's the abbreviation for big blinds?
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
ArcadianRock
Old 03-10-2009, 09:07 PM #5 (permalink)  
ArcadianRock's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
ArcadianRock
I always thought it was bb
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 09:11 PM #6 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
 Yeah that's what I think it is. So one big bet is two big blinds?
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
ArcadianRock
Old 03-10-2009, 09:11 PM #7 (permalink)  
ArcadianRock's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
ArcadianRock
Yes. And now to type some more words so that "yes" doesn't constitute my whole post...
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2009, 09:19 PM #8 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 you could play 4 tables of $200nl, assuming you earn 3BB/100...
If you get 50/hands a table/hour thats 200 hands an hour, so 6BB an hour.

1 BB = $4. * that by 6 and you're looking at $24 an hour, which ain't too bad.

That doesn't even include rakeback/bonus etc. But I think 3BB/100 at 200nl is really solid.

(Can anyone verify that this is correct)
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 09:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
 If that's correct, then that is cool. What a goal to look up to. Anyways, since you two have proven to be the most kind and patient towards me, I'm gonna ask a noob question cause I hate searching through forums. What's the main poker tracker stat you're looking for and what does it mean in a quick summary. To my current knowledge it's:

VPIP / AF / PFR

Is AF Aggression Factor Total? or Aggression Frequency Total? Let me know if I'm wrong. Any other SUPER important stats that I should look at on a regular basis?

And if you know of ONE post or ONE thread that has all the info written out well, let me know . Thanks in advance guys.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
ArcadianRock
Old 03-10-2009, 09:42 PM #10 (permalink)  
ArcadianRock's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 295
ArcadianRock
This is what I look for.

When I have a good hand Preflop I look at VPIP because if it says 40%+ I'm going to raise, if I have a bad hand, I'll limp at best if it's already been opened.

When I look at PFR and see a low percentage I'm folding my okay hands like AT to a preflop raise

Over a 100 hands this guy hadn't raised once and he raised and I folded my A9s on the CO and sure enough at the end of the hand he had KK. But when a guy with 35% PFR raises and I have TT I wouldn't mind getting it all in there or reraising.

If the AF is low I'm going to C-Bet much more and just take it down on the flop whereas if it's really high I'm going to reraise a lot more if I had a decent standing.

I had AKo on a dry board and he shoved and I called to his K high. Stats help out so much especially when you multitable.
Reply With Quote
LuckySlevin
Old 03-10-2009, 09:43 PM #11 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Live Poker Room
Posts: 1,050
LuckySlevin is an unknown quantity at this point
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpaand
And if you know of ONE post or ONE thread that has all the info written out well, let me know . Thanks in advance guys.
This has a brief discussion on AF might be of some use to you:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...af-t79112.html

In terms of what stats you should be using...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jyms
unless you know what to do to expoit a certain stat for tons of BB's don't bother with it on your hud. Find what works in your games and use that to make money and get reads.

Having 4bet and fold to 4bet stats at the micros is a waste of time and info, so are all these preflop calling, folding and CC stats. Everyone calls too much at the micro and small stakes games. If someone has a 53/8 stat then he is calling too much, and all the time. If they are 13/10 they are folding too much. Have the stats that tell you about the style of player they are and nothing else. Until you actually know how to play and exploit just learn how to read players, boards and get ranges based on preflop stats and narrow them based on the flop stats.

Here is what you need.

VPIP/PFR/AF/hands
ATTsteal/3bet/fold to 3bet
Cbet/fold to cbet/fold to T cbet
and if you want another use WTSD% or WWSF% to see if these guys are going to showdown too often. about 25% is more than enough, WWSF% should be about 40% or more.
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ud-t81017.html
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2009, 09:47 PM #12 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 Um, I think just looking for a specific stat to profile a player is a bit flawed because the decisions you will face at the table may be clarified with the use of different stats for different situations.

However, I think the standard VPIP/PFR/AF gives a pretty good indicator on the players style, generally giving away info such as tight/looseness and also how aggressive they are (do they like to raise preflop? do they like to splash chips around postflop? are the a calling station? etc..). All these sorts of things can be interpreted with the basic stats.

To understand more about how positionally aware an opponent is, the attempt to steal blinds stat, (ATS or ATSB) is a very good indicator of this.
If someone never steals, their opening range isn't deviating much from their UTG opening vs their BUTTON opening. However, if someones ATS is high, typically their button opening range is much wider than their UTG opening range.

I think C-bet sats are pretty key as well when it comes down to estimating your EV of the options you have in postlfop play.
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
Micro2Macro
Old 03-10-2009, 09:49 PM #13 (permalink)  
Micro2Macro's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: http://three-pair.com/
Posts: 4,463
Micro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the roughMicro2Macro is a jewel in the rough
 lol this is exactly what my HUD looks like:

jyms said: Here is what you need.

VPIP/PFR/AF/hands
ATTsteal/3bet/fold to 3bet
Cbet/fold to cbet/fold to T cbet
"Once we reach a certain level of mastery, we see there are higher levels and challenges. If we are disciplined and patient, we proceed. At each higher level, new pleasures and insights await us--ones not even suspected when we started out. We can take this as far as we want--in any human activity there is always a higher level to which we can aspire."

Check out my blog here!

"You are a degenerate Gaam-balur"

http://www.philgalfond.com/lets-make-some-changes/
 
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 09:57 PM #14 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
 Holy crap! Thanks guys. That was more than the info I was expecting. I thought someone was gonna grill me for not searching lol.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
Keith
Old 03-10-2009, 10:03 PM #15 (permalink)  
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,336
Keith will become famous soon enoughKeith will become famous soon enough
 and read this http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...ng-t67647.html
Reply With Quote
TonyB73
Old 03-10-2009, 10:12 PM #16 (permalink)  
TonyB73's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 414
TonyB73
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpaand
Holy crap! Thanks guys. That was more than the info I was expecting. I thought someone was gonna grill me for not searching lol.
Do a ******* search you lazy ****.
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 10:29 PM #17 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
 Thanks Tony I needed that...
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
loonychune
Old 03-10-2009, 11:03 PM #18 (permalink)  
loonychune's Avatar
Straight

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 145
loonychune
Quote:
I'm currently in Psychology class so why not make a chart for poker!
Pierre Janet would be turning in his grave
 
Reply With Quote
xpaand
Old 03-10-2009, 11:13 PM #19 (permalink)  
xpaand's Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 289
xpaand
Send a message via MSN to xpaand Send a message via Skype™ to xpaand
Quote:
Originally Posted by loonychune
Quote:
I'm currently in Psychology class so why not make a chart for poker!
Pierre Janet would be turning in his grave
Haha that's awesome. This is off topic, but you know what I really like about this forum? The people in it aren't complete idiots. Not to sound like a douche or anything (seriously, I'm really modest IRL), but some of the other forums I've been in have so many illiterate people that it's so hard to read through an entire thread. This forum has so many people that can write extremely well and who can discuss some pretty complicated topics. Whenever I read the essays and threads that some of the people on here write, I'm blown away! Anyways, that's enough ass kissing from me for the whole year. Just wanted to say what was on my mind cause I'm very bored atm.
OP: Beginner to Master

If I bet as a bluff, I should be thinking "am I getting better hands to fold? Is it likely that he will fold x% of the time to a y sized bet to make it +EV?". If I bet for value, I should be thinking "am I getting worst hands to call? Am I ahead of enough of his range that this is a good value bet?".
 
Reply With Quote
Airles™
Old 03-10-2009, 11:23 PM #20 (permalink)  
Airles™'s Avatar
Flush

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 317
Airles™
I pretty much shoot for anything over 0bb/100 throughout a decent sample size. Anything more than 2-3bb/100 I'll be estatic about, regardless of structure or variation.

I know you were just bored in class and looking to pass the time here, but I try to not even think about the actual money. I actually hide my winnings columns in PT. I just want to know if I'm playing well and plug some leaks along the way.

I used to be one of those people who check their bankroll every 20 minutes, seriously. If you're playing well, the money will come. I find if your too worried about the actual money, you're never going to be satisfied with the current level (which is okay because you want to improve) but that way of thinking can have you taking shots you're not rolled for.

And yep, I've been there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carroters
The solution to getting 1 outered is a simple one. We just need to find the site that is the least rigged.
 
Reply With Quote
d0zer
Old 03-11-2009, 01:39 AM     Post subject: Re: How much $ are you making. #21 (permalink)  
d0zer's Avatar
Moderator

Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,518
d0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the roughd0zer is a jewel in the rough
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArcadianRock
These are assuming you play FR and average about 50 hands an hour. Also I'm assuming that 10bb-20bb is a good range for most players, maybe less maybe a bit more but I think 20bb/100 is pretty damn good poker playing so...
Your winrates are overly optimistic for anything higher than the microstakes, and the number of tables you've chosen is much much less than anyone shooting for a decent hourly at full ring ever plays.

I'm playing 18 tables for about 1k hands/hr, and avg around 6bb/100. 10bb/100 (5ptbb/100) is considered very solid for 100NL.
Reply With Quote
swiggidy
Old 03-11-2009, 01:40 AM #22 (permalink)  
swiggidy's Avatar
4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
swiggidy will become famous soon enough
 Your bb/100 should be increasing, and by the time it gets sufficient for one level you should be ready to move up to the next level.

I have no idea what my win-rate for 25NL 6max is after 60k hands, somewhere between 2bb/100 and 15bb/100 best I can tell.
(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
 
Reply With Quote
Outlaw
Old 03-11-2009, 04:25 AM #23 (permalink)  
Outlaw's Avatar
Full House

Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,033
Outlaw
In my experience..

9-table 2NL for $3.50/hr (16BB/100)
9-table 5NL for $6.50/hr (8BB/100)
9-table 10NL for $11.00/hr (6BB/100)

Never played 25NL.
Reply With Quote
HeAVyB101
Old 03-11-2009, 02:59 PM #24 (permalink)  
HeAVyB101's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 93
HeAVyB101
25NL isn't bad.

Over the past 12k hands I've played at 25NL i'm averaging 12bb/100 hands. I play the fast tables and play 6 tables at once. You can get about 100 hands an hour on the fast tables. So I make about $15-18 an hour depending on how many hands each hour.
________________________________


Dumb man climb tree to get cherry, wise man spread limbs.
 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Latest Poker News
KoRnholio Old 05-26-2012, 03:08 PM    Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ...

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »
Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:46 PM.

Contact Us - Archive - Top

FTR Testimonials

All content
© FlopTurnRiver.com 		Advertising  |   Partners  |   Testimonials  |   T&C  |   Contact Us  |   FTR News & Press  |   Site Map  |   Search FTR

Full Tilt  |   Titan Poker  |   UltimateBet  |   Poker Stars  |   Ladbrokes Bonus  |   Sportsbook  |   Cake Poker  

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum
This is not a gambling website.